The 3 reasons why I am done with WotC

[Maggan]

Well then. Given how the sentences you posted right before this were:
I'm sure WotC figgers they'll get along fine now that you've resolved not to purchase any of their products that you just barely said you already don't purhase anyway.

I get the feeling that many who are declaring an end to buying WotC stuff have already done so, sometimes several times.

Well, maybe this time ... after that nice looking Greyhawk book ... and a little booster ... I can handle a booster ... but after that, I'M DONE!

But wait ... there's a shiny new book out ...

/M

 

[Ghendar]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, at least WotC admits to having errata. There are tons of game companies that never acknowledge there are any errors whatsoever in their books, and believe me, WotC is nowhere near the top of the list when it comes to having errors. But since WotC actually acts professionally and both acknowledges and publishes errata, they get raked over the coals. Perhaps they'd be better off never admitting to making mistakes, like most game companies.

Or perhaps proper editing could solve the problem before errata is needed.

 

[Ghendar]

Yeah, I love some of the third-party publishers. Green Ronin is a great example. I love their Mythic Vistas line, which, in my opinion, outdid even GURPS sourcebooks when it came to covering a given subject and adapting it to a game system. Too bad they didn't sell well enough to justify the line being continued Goodman's Dungeon Crawl Classics line is one of the great product lines in games, with a seemingly neverending stream of adventure modules that get right to the heart of adventure gaming. Necromancer Games is another class act, with great adventures and awe-inspiring products like Judges Guild's Wilderlands. And Malhavoc, Monte Cook's company, with cool books like When the Sky Falls and Requiem for a God, as well as the ne plus ultra of game products, Ptolus.

So, yeah, third-party publishers deserved support all along. Too bad it takes something like Dragon and Dungeon disappearing to get people to check 'em out.

I agree.
I've been buying third party stuff since 3.0 was released.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

The last WOTC book I bought was the Spell Compendium. Before that it was Complete Warrior.. I'm not exactly boycotting them, just waiting on them to publish something worth a crap. So far I have used the Spell Compendium a good bit and would recommend it. Nothing else since Masters of the Wild has even been taken off my shelf.

 

[was]

Was,

I think that's the take of many people that have been in D&D since before 3rd edition and even 3.0.

The funny thing is that I was an enthusiastic 3.x convert. It's just been the last year or so that I've strayed over to other companies materials.

 

[freebfrost]

I and other subscribers have been asking for this for years.

Well, I know from posts from yesterday and today that Diaglo and I are out of the WotC buying business. I don't believe either of us were clamoring for online-only Dragon/Dungeon magazines. And just the two of us apparently spend about $6000/year on WotC product.

How many online subscribers will it take to make up for losing us?

And how much more will they lose from other faithful "old-school" gamers?

They can appeal to the new kids all they want. The new kids don't have the kind of disposable income that the old generation does.

 

[WizarDru]

They can appeal to the new kids all they want. The new kids don't have the kind of disposable income that the old generation does.

As I think we established in another thread, it has precious little to do with total disposable income and much more to do with how much of that disposable income is thrown WotC's way. And while you and diaglo may spend upwards of $6000 a year on WotC products, I would hazard you are far and away the outliers, not the norm. Teenagers, in particular, are very loose with their cash. I remember my spending habits when I was that age and I was hardly unique. I have more disposable cash now than I ever had in my life before, but I also have two kids, two cars, a dog, a house, loans to pay, sick family members and lots of work. While I COULD spend a ton of money on WotC products, I have a tendency NOT to...and I think that's the norm for older gamers, not the odd man out.

If WotC follows Pyramid's model, then I expect that you'll see a flat subscription fee with a discount for a longer period of time...and while I don't know if I'll like their content, I DO think they could easily make a handy profit in that fashion. It certainly will be less to the benefit of the older gamers, but the general impression I get is that those who are walking away from WotC now (and who actually mean it) were probably going to do that sooner or later, regardless.

I think dropping WotC is a perfectly valid choice, and the only one that will really matter. You can yell until your blue in the face...but if you complain and then buy anyways, you've just wasted your breath. For myself, I'm curious what the online material will be like and anxiously await the arrival of Pathfinder. There is good amidst the bad, as unhappy as I am over the change.

 

[der_kluge]

I already buy very little WoTC material. I do buy their miniatures, though. Their books? Not so much. Necromancer tends to get my money there.

 

[freebfrost]

As I think we established in another thread, it has precious little to do with total disposable income and much more to do with how much of that disposable income is thrown WotC's way. And while you and diaglo may spend upwards of $6000 a year on WotC products, I would hazard you are far and away the outliers, not the norm.

If out of 2 million D&D gamers (year 2000 numbers I believe) there are only 500 of us that devoted to the game who are outraged (0.025 % of the population), that's a loss of $3m a year. If they price at $10 a month, you'd need to attract 25,000 subscribers. Of course if they charge $30 a month, they'd only need 10,000 new subscribers.

Teenagers, in particular, are very loose with their cash. I remember my spending habits when I was that age and I was hardly unique. I have more disposable cash now than I ever had in my life before, but I also have two kids, two cars, a dog, a house, loans to pay, sick family members and lots of work. While I COULD spend a ton of money on WotC products, I have a tendency NOT to...and I think that's the norm for older gamers, not the odd man out.

Yes, I've seen a lot of teenagers at GenCon complaining how they already spent their $200 on the first day and wondering how they are going to eat. I budget that amount just for food...

For every example you can give me about someone with kids, cars, etc., I know someone who is in the same boat (kids, cars, bills) that has excess money to spend freely also. There's more of us who have the funds than you think from my experience. YMMV, but don't just assume that we are outliers.

It certainly will be less to the benefit of the older gamers, but the general impression I get is that those who are walking away from WotC now (and who actually mean it) were probably going to do that sooner or later, regardless.

I've bought every WotC product made for D&D until yesterday's news. I had no intention of leaving the game so to speak.

I think dropping WotC is a perfectly valid choice, and the only one that will really matter. You can yell until your blue in the face...but if you complain and then buy anyways, you've just wasted your breath. For myself, I'm curious what the online material will be like and anxiously await the arrival of Pathfinder. There is good amidst the bad, as unhappy as I am over the change.

Agreed. I've had nothing but good experiences with Paizo (and Necromancer). I will certainly continue to support them, Goodman, and Green Ronin.

 

[Darth K'Trava]

While I'm bummed about the whole thing, I haven't had any plans to dump WOTC any time soon... I doubt I'll get the electronic version as I'm more apt to read a hardcopy than an electronic one. I've got electronic versions of their books but have rarely looked at them, preferring to go find the hardcover and find what I'm looking for.