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D&D 4E The "4E Crowd" - where will they go? What will they play?

pemerton

Legend
By the OP's definitions I think I'm serious, though I don't play every week - more like every two to three weeks.

Before 4e, I GMed Rolemaster for 19 years; before that, AD&D. After my 4e game finishes (currently at 19th level, probably another 2 years or so to finish Epic tier) I would like to run Burning Wheel, but it will depend on what my players want.
 

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I would be classified as in the serious category. I've never been to any Con and although I once played every week, its now scaled back to every other. Further, I am anticipating the end of my long adventure in this gaming hobby within the next year so that should slide me even further down.

However, if that was not the case, and I wanted to run another long campaign with D&D, it would be 4e, despite its lack of support. 5e, from a design framework (from rulings rather than rules, to adventure design, to its clear simulation agenda, and antagonism toward the metagame), is not shaping up to be something I'll be interested in. Although, I am in the playtest, it will almost assuredly be the only version of D&D that I do not own. If I weren't going to run another hardcore campaign, I would probably have a go at the new Star Wars game (there is promise there) or run a casual Sorceror or BW game. For context, I own 13th age.
 

Renion

First Post
I played a game or two of 3.5 back in highschool but I didn't play again until 4e. Since then I've been playing every week since launch. Do I qualify as the "4e" crowd? I don't really care if I do. But I loved 4e and I'm very excited for D&D Next. I'm going to switch the moment it's ready.
 

Mark CMG

Creative Mountain Games
I guess I am a hardcore gamer of wargames, RPGs, and many non-wargame board games (even a handful of non-collectible card games). I've been gaming for roughly 40 years and RPGs since 1974. I go to at least a half dozen gamedays and conventions every year and play in a somewhere around a dozen RPG systems each year as well. I've known relatively few single-system RPGers in my gaming life, that is those who play only a single RPG system year after year for a few years or more. Multi-system gamers (that is, those who play a number of RPG systems during the year, most year of their gaming life) have systems they really love, some they will play if invited whether they love them or just like them, some they have tried and don't like/play, and some few systems they simply don't care to to even try because of what they have discovered about them. They can generally glance through a book or check out a demo of a system, new or old, and decide if it is something about which they wish to spend any time discovering more.

All that said, I think people who self-identify as single-system, dedicated 4E gamers will likely continue to play 4E for as long as they can rally enough players to do so, as well they should. If someone finds a system they love and have no time for other RPGing, they should stick with it.
 

Scrivener of Doom

Adventurer
My plan is to keep playing 4E.

It comes down to this: I'm 43 now. I'm semi-retired but living away from my gaming group so online with them is the only option. And I've got everything I need to run 4E online plus enough published material and my own ideas to run this game for a couple of more decades. I don't want to change the rules anymore: I just want to play a game we all like.

That's not dissing Next or the other versions, either. I'm just off the edition roundabout. Now it's simply time to play. :)
 

the Jester

Legend
I'm a hardcore gamer. I go way back with D&D, having played 1e first but after a couple sessions purchased the Basic set (red box)... so I've played those and every iteration since (not counting [notranslate]Pathfinder[/notranslate]).

I've been running 4e since slightly before release. During that time, 4e's warts have become increasingly apparent to me. However, the same thing happened with every other edition before hand, so you know. I suppose I'm most in love with 1e, but it lacks key elements for me... likewise every other edition so far. So I'd say I'm a casual 4e player. (Well, dm.) Regardless, I'm part of the "4e crowd", I suppose, since I've been running it for years and have no intention of moving back to a previous edition.

5e is looking promising to me: enough customization, enough simplicity, fast enough play, enables mixed level parties (so every pc starts at 1st level is a viable playstyle), etc. It enables the type of game I want to run. It ties things to the campaign world (the traits you get from backgrounds are great) and encourages the pcs to make use of those character backgrounds. So far it looks awesome to me. So when it actually releases, I'm very likely to be a first-day adopter. We'll see. If the game looks to suck, I won't buy it- but so far, I'm thinking it's going to be my new best edition ever.
 

n00bdragon

First Post
I'm definitely in the hardcore crowd, and while my primary group is happy playing 4e and have been happy with it since launch we unfortunately have to replace a player every 6 months to a year due to schedules and the like and each time it's gotten harder and harder as the "anti-4e meme" gets more and more entrenched. Any time I even mention the game I instantly come under assault and am asked to defend my choice of system, nevermind asking people to join. It's ridiculous. As a result I've started running other systems on the side. Mutants and Masterminds 3e borrows a lot of theory from 4e and puts it to good use. I've really enjoyed running that system and will probably keep doing so. I might even consider making it my primary game since "super heroes" makes people curious and not instantly spit venom at my face.

So what will happen to the 4e crowd? They'll keep playing 4e until their groups break up and then they'll just play other things. The most worrisome thing to me is that new games will look at what happened and shy away from using the good ideas 4e had.
 

Raith5

Adventurer
I am a borderline serious/casual 4th ed gamer who plays in a group of fairly similar gamers from different walks of life. What I find really surprising is that while my group is serious and most have been playing versions of D and D for 20-30 years is that there is such little interest in DDN. It is not just that we are immersed in a really good 4th ed campaign, but we are not even discussing DDN. There is a deep satisfaction with the way 4th ed plays - despite the odd niggle here and there.

I am not sure what I would want to play next after 4th ed - but I know DDN is going to embrace or simulate a whole lot of elements of 4th ed to get my group interested.
 
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Iosue

Legend
This is one 4e gamer who looks forward to running and playing 5e. But will certainly enjoy a 4e game if the opportunity arises.
 

Mercurius

Legend
I'd like to tease out and clarify one of my points, which is that the "4E crowd" doesn't have as distinct or faithful or, probably, lasting an identity as the "3.x crowd" (which has largely morphed into the "[notranslate]Pathfinder[/notranslate] crowd"). I've said this before, but it is my sense that 4E will be similar to 2E - sort of lost in the mix, with some continued players but less than the editions before and after it. I imagine that there are less people playing 2E than there are 1E (or a modified 1E, or OSRIC).

I'm sure someone has said it, but it might be that D&D editions are like Star Trek movies - it is the even numbered ones that get re-watched ad remembered (although 1 is under-rated, imo, and 3 was decent, if only as a bridge between 2 and 4, the two best ST movies imo; and of course after 8 it all went into the crapper...but I digress).

I guess I am a hardcore gamer of wargames, RPGs, and many non-wargame board games (even a handful of non-collectible card games). I've been gaming for roughly 40 years and RPGs since 1974. I go to at least a half dozen gamedays and conventions every year and play in a somewhere around a dozen RPG systems each year as well. I've known relatively few single-system RPGers in my gaming life, that is those who play only a single RPG system year after year for a few years or more. Multi-system gamers (that is, those who play a number of RPG systems during the year, most year of their gaming life) have systems they really love, some they will play if invited whether they love them or just like them, some they have tried and don't like/play, and some few systems they simply don't care to to even try because of what they have discovered about them. They can generally glance through a book or check out a demo of a system, new or old, and decide if it is something about which they wish to spend any time discovering more.

I've largely been a "single-system gamer" although not by choice. I've played games other than D&D throughout the years, but rarely more than for a few sessions and not as frequently as I would have liked. A large part of this just comes down to availability and convenience. Right now I'm the only "serious" gamer in my group, so I'm the only one who has a sense of the breadth and depth of the RPG world or who owns multiple game systems. But I think that's just it: groups comprised of hardcore and serious gamers are more likely to play multiple RPGs, whereas your typical D&D group - which is usually comprised of one or two serious gamers and a bunch of casual gamers - just plays D&D and never really veers from it.

I've been running 4e since slightly before release. During that time, 4e's warts have become increasingly apparent to me. However, the same thing happened with every other edition before hand, so you know. I suppose I'm most in love with 1e, but it lacks key elements for me... likewise every other edition so far. So I'd say I'm a casual 4e player. (Well, dm.) Regardless, I'm part of the "4e crowd", I suppose, since I've been running it for years and have no intention of moving back to a previous edition.

5e is looking promising to me: enough customization, enough simplicity, fast enough play, enables mixed level parties (so every pc starts at 1st level is a viable playstyle), etc. It enables the type of game I want to run. It ties things to the campaign world (the traits you get from backgrounds are great) and encourages the pcs to make use of those character backgrounds. So far it looks awesome to me. So when it actually releases, I'm very likely to be a first-day adopter. We'll see. If the game looks to suck, I won't buy it- but so far, I'm thinking it's going to be my new best edition ever.

This all sounds very similar to me. For awhile I was thinking of changing it up and converting our group to [notranslate]Pathfinder[/notranslate] - I even bought all three bestiaries and the intro box (I already had core an the GM's book) with that in mind - but when it came down to it, when I scoured over the rules, I remembered some of the things I didn't like about 3.5 and it also brought to light some of the things I really liked about 4E.

Part of the problem for me with 4E is that it seems like it took a half step forward but also a half step to the side, rather than simply a whole step forward. To put it another way, it moved beyond 3.5, but didn't either adequately include its best qualities (classic D&D feel, customization, flexibility) or fully transcend its worst qualities (unwieldiness and over-complexity). What I've seen so far about Next is promising in this regard and I'll be glad to adopt it if it comes close to fulfilling that promise.

5E doesn't have to be a perfect game - it won't, cannot be - but it must address the biggest problems of 4E, include the best qualities, and re-incorporate the best qualities of prior editions that were lost -- at least to some extent.
 

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