The 4th-level bard with a CR of 1

[S'mon]

A solid level 4 Fighter is getting his head handed to him in a fight with a 4th level party, too, in my view.

Hm, back in 3.0 I set 2 Ftr-4s straight from the DMG up against party of 4th level PCs, they wiped the floor with the PCs. At low levels NPCs have more gear than PCs, & with similar point value and vs inexperienced players they can be extremely dangerous. Conversely at high levels NPCs' actual CR is usually well under their level.

 

[Starman]

(that low Wis score ... how'd he get that -- you're supposed to get more wisdom with age! )

It probably has been going up. Think about how low it was when he was a young buck! Yikes!

Starman

 

[greywulf]

I'd give the players 0 XP for killing or defeating such a cute guy! CR is irrelevent therefore. He'd make a great NPC though - and old bard, broken from the horrors he's seen, but with fragments of obscure knowledge tucked in his addled brain provided the PCs ask the right questions.....

Any XP rewards the players got from this NPC would be from role-playing.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

Wow greywulf, your summary practically hits the nail on the head for my point view on him too.

 

[Thanee]

Any XP rewards the players got from this NPC would be from role-playing.

The CR system covers social challenges/encounters, too. It's not purely for combat.

Bye
Thanee

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

Those nonexistant saves will kill him every time. CR 0.

Also, how did his Diplomacy end up as a +9? Shouldn't it be an +11 for being a half-elf?

If so, that +11 Diplomacy, coupled with his bardic abilities and extensive nobility, local and historical knowledge, makes him a serious CR 4 threat. Most PC parties won't be able to match a straight +11 on opposed Diplomacy checks, and Bragi here is more than capable of getting circumstance bonuses by leveraging his Knowledge skills.

 

[the Jester]

A little background on how I'm using him- he's a senile old man in a small village in a low-magic experiment I'm running (thus the low equipment). My background notes for him are thus:

Bragi is a half-elf of advanced years (115 at campaign start) (m; brd 4; nee 156; N; int 17, wis 6; mind wandering, in the beginning stages of the wasting sickness, font of lore). He is an accomplished fiddler and every time the town has a great celebration or faire he is begged to perform, usually giving in after some persuasion. He claims to have been the first baby born in Whitewater.

There are prolly a few errors in his stat block- obviously, it was still under construction when I posted it.

The bard I'm using for the low-magic variant doesn't cast spells, but gets bonus feats instead.

Lingering Song makes your bardic music last longer; Encore lets you briefly stop and then resume your song. Npcs do not necessarily start off with max hp in this setting.

 

[Tonguez]

A little background on how I'm using him- he's a senile old man in a small village in a low-magic experiment I'm running (thus the low equipment). My background notes for him are thus:

Bragi is a half-elf of advanced years (115 at campaign start) (m; brd 4; nee 156; N; int 17, wis 6; mind wandering, in the beginning stages of the wasting sickness, font of lore). He is an accomplished fiddler and every time the town has a great celebration or faire he is begged to perform, usually giving in after some persuasion. He claims to have been the first baby born in Whitewater.

on that basis he remains CR 4 (maybe CR 3 if I'm being generous)

1. He's got magical powers (fascinate and inspire) in a low magic world
2. He has high knowledge and social skills (ie he's a roleplaying challenge)
3. He is a valued member of his community
a. he probably has a bit of influence (and can call in favours)
b. the town warriors/tough guys will look after him

 

[I'm A Banana]

(a) Equipment. Robes of Resistance, Bracers of Armor, +1 bows, etc. will all help compensate for his shoddy scores

(b) Spells. Pretty obvious that spells increase his power quite a bit.

(c) CR doesn't just measure combat. Check out those skills. "Overcoming him" probably doesn't include bashing his head in so much as enduring his pop quizzes...

 

[the Jester]

on that basis he remains CR 4 (maybe CR 3 if I'm being generous)

1. He's got magical powers (fascinate and inspire) in a low magic world
2. He has high knowledge and social skills (ie he's a roleplaying challenge)
3. He is a valued member of his community
a. he probably has a bit of influence (and can call in favours)
b. the town warriors/tough guys will look after him

Color me convinced.

He was never meant to provide a challenge, per se, but more for training, flavor and adventure. Still, I like to have a CR for npcs; that way I can give xp for earning their aid, rescuing them, etc.

Good calls, Tonguez. I'm going to set him at CR 3.