The 5e Flaws list, my editorial changes (to correct flaws in the flaws)

superstition

First Post
(My alternatives italicized)


"I judge others harshly, and myself even more severely."

"I am quite inclined to judge others and myself by an unreachable standard."


"I put too much trust in those who wield power within my temple's hierarchy."

"I put too much trust in the temple hierarchy, considering what my faith tells me about how much I should trust it. I should trust more in my deity(s) and less in the people running things."


"My piety sometimes leads me to blindly trust those that profess faith in my god."

"My piety sometimes falters, leading me to blindly trust those who profess faith in my god just sometimes."



"I am inflexible in my thinking."

"I am pretty inclined toward inflexibility of thought, when I am in a situation where more flexibility would benefit me, and/or those I care about, and/or agendas I favor."


"I am suspicious of strangers and suspect the worst of them."

"I am sometimes suspicious of strangers and suspect the worst of them in contexts where that is, too often, simply paranoid and should be rather obvious to me."


"Once I pick a goal, I become obsessed with it to the detriment of everything else in my life."

"Once I pick a goal, I become obsessed with it to the detriment, in varying degrees, of everything else in my life, persisting even when it should be obvious that I can't achieve enough of it to make the sacrifice worthwhile."



"I can't resist a pretty face."
“I'm a sucker for a pretty face.”

"I have a lot of difficulty not behaving quite recklessly to earn the favor of one with a pretty face."


“I have an insatiable desire for carnal pleasures.”


“I have an insatiable, quite unhealthy, desire for carnal pleasures.”



"I'm convinced that no one could ever fool me in the way I fool others."

"I'm convinced that only very few could ever fool me in the way I can fool others."



"I can't resist swindling people who are more powerful than me."

"I usually can't resist swindling people who are more powerful than me but who have earned that power purely due to merit rather than something corrupt. This makes my actions corrosive to society."


"I hate to admit it and will hate myself for it, but I'll run and preserve my own hide if the going gets tough."
“Even if I'm outnumbered, I always run away from a fight.”

"I am loath to admit it and will feel very ashamed with myself for it, but I'll usually run and preserve my own hide if the going gets tough but isn't tough enough for me to need to run. Even though I often know it's probably not tough enough, I'm a usually quite the coward."


“When faced with a choice between money and my friends, I usually choose the money.”

“When faced with a choice between money and my friends, I usually choose the money, even though my friends are likely to be more valuable to me.”


“An innocent person is in prison for a crime that I committed. I'm okay with that.”

"A person innocent of the minor crime I committed is in prison because of it. I am not troubled by that because I am convinced that they were a bad person who deserved incarceration. However, I don't have solid proof of that."


“A scandal prevents me from ever going home again. That kind of trouble seems to follow me around.”

“A scandal prevents me from ever going home again. I did something bad and feel ashamed. However, that kind of trouble seems to follow me around.”


I once satirized a noble who still wants my head. It was a mistake that I will likely repeat.”

I once lied horribly about a noble’s child and the noble still wants my head. It was a political inconvenience that I will likely run into again because I want to inflict suffering on wealthy people.”


“I have trouble keeping my true feelings hidden. My sharp tongue lands me in trouble.”

“I have trouble keeping my true feelings hidden. My sometimes sadistic tongue lands me in trouble.”


“The tyrant who rules my land will stop at nothing to see me killed.”

“The tyrant who rules my land will stop at nothing to see me killed. I, being unnecessarily respectful of misplaced authority, am strongly inclined to turn myself in.”


“I'm convinced of the significance of my destiny, and blind to my shortcomings and the risk of failure.”

“I'm almost completely convinced of the significance of my destiny, and am usually blind to my shortcomings and the risk of failure.”


“The people who knew me when I was young know my shameful secret, so I can never go home again.”


“The people who knew me when I was young know my shameful secret, a secret that I am fully-deserving of scorn over. I can never go home again and may commit the loathsome act again.”


“I have a weakness for the vices of the city, especially hard drink.”
“I am too enamored of ale, wine, and other intoxicants.”
“Once I start drinking, it's hard for me to stop.”

“I have a too-likely personally-lethal weakness for the vices of the city, especially hard drink.”


“Secretly, I believe that things would be better if I were a tyrant lording over the land.”

“I want to rule over this land as a tyrant, replacing the more benevolent rule that exists.”

“I have an intense desire to rule, to wield great power, even though I am not qualified to do so. I know this is wrong but the feeling remains powerful and has been with me all my life.”


I have trouble trusting in my allies.”

“I tend to distrust my allies to the point where I am likely to waste too much of my resources checking up on them.”


“I'm quick to assume that someone is trying to cheat me.”

“My quickness to assume that someone is trying to cheat me gets in the way, too much, of my business dealings. This has made it quite difficult for me to get ahead. I tend to alienate those who would work with me.”


No one must ever learn that I once stole money from guild coffers.”

No one must ever learn that I once stole money from the coffers of a well-run, but funding-poor, monastery. This lead to the death of many children and monks from starvation. I don’t feel particularly broken-up about it.”

"I rob from the rich and give to the poor. However, I am inclined to do this even when the rich are better-equipped to help the poor and are only rich because they inherited their wealth and are using it purely philanthropically. I enjoy the stealing part and especially the part about being the hero for the common folk. I relish the appreciation."


“I'm never satisfied with what I have--I always want more.”

“I'm usually not satisfied at all with what I have. I always want more, and very often right away.”


“I would kill to acquire a noble title.”

“I often dream about killing to acquire a noble title, a dream I find startlingly appealing. However, I refrain because it’s an evil act.”


“I’m horribly jealous of anyone who outshines my handiwork. Everywhere I go, I'm surrounded by rivals.”

“I’m horribly jealous of anyone who outshines my handiwork. I feel like I'm surrounded by rivals most of the time. Because of this jealousy I usually find it very difficult to enjoy my achievements and can be boorish toward those I value.”


“Now that I've returned to the world, I enjoy its delights a little too much.”

“Now that I've returned to the world, I really want to enjoy its forbidden delights too much.”

“Now that I've returned to the world, I enjoy its forbidden delights a little too much. These are delights that usually bring me more personal pain, due to how I feel about myself later, than the pleasure they provide.”


“I harbor dark bloodthirsty thoughts that my isolation failed to quell.”

“I harbor dark bloodthirsty thoughts that my isolation failed to quell. I am beginning to feel that I should give into them.”

“I harbor dark bloodthirsty thoughts that my isolation failed to quell. I know that they are based in bad acts I took of my own accord in the past but have blotted from memory. So, they return to torment and tempt me.”


“I am dogmatic in my thoughts and philosophy.”

“I am dogmatic and outspoken in my thoughts and philosophy about most everything, to the point of often alienating those around me, unless they share my narrow worldview.”


“I let my need to win arguments overshadow friendships and harmony.”
“I'd rather eat my armor than admit when I'm wrong.”

“I usually let my need to feel that I have won unimportant arguments, about things I may not know enough about, overshadow friendships and harmony.”


“I’d risk too much to uncover a lost bit of knowledge.”

“I’d probably risk too much to uncover a lost bit of knowledge, knowledge that I know isn’t even close to being worth that level of bother.”


“I like keeping secrets and won't share them with anyone.”

I often feel compelled to have secrets simply for the sake of having them.”


I secretly believe that everyone is beneath me.”

“I secretly believe that I will have the chance to subjugate everyone. When that chance comes I will seize it!”

”I secretly believe that everyone is beneath me, and that belief is showing itself increasingly as time progresses.”


I hide a truly scandalous secret that could ruin my family forever.”

I hide a truly scandalous secret that could ruin my family forever. This secret is something I did that I knew was morally wrong, not only in isolation but in terms of the greater good. I did it anyway and am a little inclined do it again.”


“I too often hear veiled insults and threats in every word addressed to me, and I'm quick to anger.”

”I am much more inclined to interpret what is communicated to me in a personally-threatening or insulting manner than I am in an objective one — regardless of the environment I’m in, which includes the people I’m with.


“By my words and actions, I often bring shame to my family.”

“By my words and actions, I often bring shame to my family. Although they have done nothing to deserve it, knowing this makes me smile.”

“By my words and actions, which can, too often, be justifiably seen as bad, I often bring shame to my family.”


“There's no room for caution in a life lived to the fullest.”

“The expression ‘no risk, no reward’ is one I live by, for the short time that I'm living. Cheers!”



I remember every insult I've received and nurse a silent resentment toward anyone who's ever wronged me.”

I remember every insult I've received and nurse a silent resentment toward anyone who's ever wronged me. The resentment makes me want to retaliate toward them in a manner that goes well beyond the wrong they’ve done to me.”

I remember every insult I've received and nurse a silent resentment toward anyone who's ever wronged me. This resentment tends to spill over onto relations with others.”


“I am slow to trust members of other races.”

“I am very slow to trust other races, even when they have a good reputation as a group with my people.”


“Violence is my answer to almost any challenge.”

"Because I have been surrounded by so much violence in my lifetime, I typically see violence as the first solution to a problem.”


“Don't expect me to save those who can't save themselves. It is nature's way that the strong thrive and the weak perish.”

“I resist trying to invest my resources into helping the weak, especially if they need saving. I am inclined to think it’s nature's way for the strong to survive and the weak to perish.”


“Most people scream and run when they see a demon. I stop and take notes on its anatomy.”

“I tend to be overly confident about my ability to survive potentially deadly encounters with potentially hostile beings because I want to acquire knowledge.”

I don't believe in 'shoot first and ask questions later' because I'd rather learn about something than destroy it first.


“I am likely to be distracted by information gathering in situations where I am confronted by potentially lethal new creatures. I want to learn about them but it could cost me my life. There is probably a conflict between me and those who wish to harm the creature before we know of its intent.”

I am inclined to be distracted by the lure of information gathering in situations where I am confronted by potentially lethal new, or sometimes even known, creatures.”


Unlocking an ancient mystery is worth the price of a civilization."

“Unlocking an ancient mystery others may see as trivial can be worth great sacrifice to me.”


“I overlook obvious solutions in favor of complicated ones.”

“I prefer to take the more complex path in most anything over the easier one, because I enjoy the greater challenge, even if that challenge arguably wastes more time and energy.

I like to do things differently that the way others go about doing things in order to be different, to have a different experience from the common person. For this reason I often prefer to do things the harder way, embracing complexity that could be probably avoided just to find the less-traveled path.”


“I speak without really thinking through my words, invariably insulting others.”

”I speak without euphemism and any effort, at all, to make my words seem softer or more pleasant than will most accurately reflect my thoughts. This extends to everyone, no matter how close they are to me. If I am wrong the bluntness of my words tends to upset others more than if it had been leavened by tactful dissembling.”

“I am so interested in speaking quickly that I don’t give enough thought to accuracy and the tact involved in letting others, especially those who know more about the subject, get their words in. This can sometimes lead to me upsetting people unnecessarily. If I would give myself a bit more time to think I would say things that are more accurate and thus less likely to upset people.”


“I’ll say anything to avoid having to do extra work.”

”I’m inherently lazy but do not wish ill on anyone unless they deserve it.”


Once someone questions my courage, I never back down no matter how dangerous the situation.”
“My hatred of my enemies is blind and unreasoning.”

Once someone questions my courage, I strongly prefer to not back down no matter how dangerous the situation.”


“I can't help but pocket loose coins and other trinkets I come across.”

“I feel a compulsion to steal anything I can. I prefer small items instead of white elephants. I try to resist this compulsion and am often successful, especially if I know it will endanger my life. However, sometimes I give in.”


“The monstrous enemy we faced in battle still leaves me quivering with fear.”

“I can become randomly angry and aggressive sometimes when something surprises me, like a loud noise.”


I made a terrible mistake in battle that cost many lives--and I would do anything to keep that mistake secret.”

I made a terrible mistake in battle that cost many lives--and would do a lot to keep that mistake secret.”


“I obey the law, even if the law causes misery.”

“I obey the law, even if the law is inhumane.”


“I'd rather kill someone in their sleep than fight fair.”

“I never intentionally fight fairly when competing in any kind of non-lethal sport.”


“It's not stealing if I need it more than someone else.”

“It’s often not theft if I want it, even if I don’t really need it and have no plans to give it to someone who does. However, I try not to take things from those who will suffer greatly from the loss.”


----------


Notes in general:

Absolutism is highly problematic. Some of the flaws I didn't edit are flaws but are written too absolutely. Absolutist statements rob PCs of agency and can even make them insane. Much of the original language needs to be toned down.


Some examples of the absolutism:

"I can't resist" (taking, this time)
"I can't resist" (swindling, this time)
"I can't think about anything but"

"I'll forget it. ... I'll ignore it.”
"I would do anything to"
"I judge" (not most of the time, not some of the time... always)

"I'm convinced that no one could ever" (double absolutism... always convinced and no one could ever)
"I have a 'tell'" (always)
"I turn tail and" (always)
"I'll do anything to"
"I'll run" (always)
"I turn tail and run" (always)
"I am unreliable" (always)
"
I'm convinced of the significance of ... blind to my shortcomings, risk of failure." (triple absolutism)
"I have a weakness for the vices" (always)
"I have trouble trusting my allies" (always)

and so on...

Absolutist statements are all over the original flaw statements. Not good. It may make it easier for GMs because there is not wiggle room but it makes for characters who are either insane or close to it. Mindless absolutes are generally best reserved for select NPCs and PCs who are being brainwashed.

Some revisions are only useful for certain alignments. Some originals are only useful for certain alignments. I typically tried to create at least one version of any that I revised multiple times that could be used for good-aligned.

There are some repeats that aren't indicated here because they qualify as flaws. Wizards really shouldn't use repeats.

I wrote quite extensive notes but have not posted them to keep things simpler.

I did all this revision today so I may find better wordings for some of these later.

Think about cost-benefit ratio when thinking about flaws.

Think about flaws generally as personality defects, not things like simple baggage from the past.

A flaw should not be so negative that it overwhelms the positive attributes of the character. Otherwise, you have created a villain.

Watch for culturally-specific attitudes being cast as universal individual character defects.

Watch for Puritanical ideas pretending to be universal, recast as individual character defects.

Watch for the Rage mechanic in disguise.

Watch for excessive vagueness.

Watch for statements that only gods or possibly demigods would make.

Watch for "flaws" that aren't flaws at all. There are too many examples of those in the original wordings, although the problem isn't as bad as the absolutism. Example: I hide a truly scandalous secret that could ruin my family forever.”

(That is an inconvenience, not necessarily anything to do with a personal character defect.)


Rules lawyers can provide a useful service.
 
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CM

Adventurer
It seems to me the flaws system is meant to encourage and reward roleplaying for beginners, rather than be a straitjacket for the DM to exploit.

PCs aren't required to follow their flaws blindly, but they are a strong indicator of how the player decided their character should act.
 

superstition

First Post
It seems to me the flaws system is meant to encourage and reward roleplaying for beginners, rather than be a straitjacket for the DM to exploit.

PCs aren't required to follow their flaws blindly, but they are a strong indicator of how the player decided their character should act.
I don't think my post suggests that the flaws system is a bad idea. What I tried to convey is that there are imperfections in the current flaws (although not every one of them) that can be remedied.

• duplications and no-shows. Some flaws are identical to others or are very similar. There are better ways to encourage certain things to be more common than to barely reword a few of them. Meanwhile, there are plenty of other possible flaws in character that aren't there.

• flaws that aren't flaws but are something else, like baggage or — depending on the context and character – boons

• flaws that are very weak mixed in with flaws that can be debilitating as written

• flaws that have specific cultural bias

• flaws that can come across as Puritanical (e.g. the pretty face and carnal pleasures one)

• flaws that only work well for certain alignments (e.g. those that are clearly the outlook/behavior of someone evil)

• flaws using unnecessarily absolutist language (language that can usually be easily avoided)

• flaws that would create characters that irritate the others at the table too much

• flaws that don't seem to realize they're the Rage mechanic

and so on

The flaws system is a good idea. What's not a good idea is to be sloppy about it. Given that I was able to make very significant improvements to some of them in a short time suggests to me that a bit more work should have gone into these. The redundancy, alone, doesn't seem to have any point. Why are there three flaws about alcoholism? It seems like lazy oversight.

Perhaps I should post all the notes after all.
 

Satyrn

First Post
Why are there three flaws about alcoholism? It seems like lazy oversight.
I assume those alcoholism flaws are each in different backgrounds. If so, the duplications are meant to help the player by giving him 1) short list of relevant options to choose from so as not to be overwhelming while 2) being all in one place so we don't have to scour a score of backgrounds over a dozen pages looking for a suggested flaw. It works well for me.

Nor does it look lazy to me; the writers just had a different goal than you would've. That said:


Many of your changes look good.
 

Satyrn

First Post
There is certain kind of change I don't like, though:

“I once satirized a noble who still wants my head. It was a mistake that I will likely repeat.”

“I once lied horribly about a noble’s child and the noble still wants my head. It was a political inconvenience that I will likely run into again because I want to inflict suffering on wealthy people.”
The bolded change ruins the flavor of that flaw for me. The original reads like a comedian who likes to poke fun at people but can't stop himself from crossing the line even when his audience can cause him great problems.

Your change turns him into a lying liar who lies to hurt people.

While it does keep the bit about choosing a dangerous target, it's a different beast altogether, and doesn't tie into the Entertainer background.
 

superstition

First Post
There is certain kind of change I don't like, though:

The bolded change ruins the flavor of that flaw for me. The original reads like a comedian who likes to poke fun at people but can't stop himself from crossing the line even when his audience can cause him great problems.

Your change turns him into a lying liar who lies to hurt people.

While it does keep the bit about choosing a dangerous target, it's a different beast altogether, and doesn't tie into the Entertainer background.
There's a reason satire is protected speech. Satirizing a noble is not a character flaw. It's a political inconvenience. This is one of the examples of the designer(s) not differentiating between baggage a character carries with them and actual character defects.

The original reads like a comedian who likes to poke fun at people but can't stop himself from crossing the line even when his audience can cause him great problems.
I can see that implication but it's not a flaw, as written, though, so it needs to be revised.

I also think you're giving it more detail than it has (note your use of simile with the word "like") and more credit as a result. It shouldn't be necessary to use simile to explain the wording. It should be very clearly-worded in the first place. Here is a revision that suits your desired flavor better than the original:

"I feel quite inclined to embarrass and harass people of higher status with satirical heckling, even when it's arguably unwarranted. Not only do I relish the laughter some provide when I do this, some take themselves and their station too seriously."

This one is a flaw because it implies, more clearly, that the person is doing something that's probably unwarranted (and thus not just in good fun but implying mean-spiritedness), because he/she likes the attention.

Remember, these are character flaws. Flaw = defect. They are not positive character traits.

"Oh, he likes to joke, especially to poke fun at the aristocracy. Sometimes he takes it a bit too far, considering his social position — but he's really a good guy" is pretty weak, if we want to believe his penchant for joking is truly a character flaw, when compared with the other flaws in the Flaws list. A very lawful person would likely see it as a flaw but someone who is chaotic could see it as a strength. Regardless, if that quality is something you'd like to see in a character then it could certainly be added to that character's description. It is not a bad idea to have neutral qualities for characters, not just positives and flaws.

I am not trying to say my revisions are perfect. I am mainly saying that the originals have problems that need to be resolved with editorial changes, either by me or by others. You were on that path by interpreting the "flaw" to be better than it is as written. I think I did a good job with the revisions considering I am unpaid, did it in one evening, and, especially, considering the shabby state of so many of the originals. I also wrote copious notes to explain things but didn't post them because I wasn't sure if all of that would be too distracting. I think Wizards can do better. Look at this, for instance:

“There's no room for caution in a life lived to the fullest.”

If this statement is used, like any other mechanic, with a face value reading, then this character would never be strategic. At all. People can try to excuse the developer(s) by "interpreting" (changing the wording in the mind to something more usable) but there's no good reason why it wasn't written the right way the first time. This is not highly-difficult stuff like complex mechanical balancing. Better:

"There's usually less room for caution than for expediency in a life lived to the fullest.”

or

"There's usually less room for caution than for bravery in a life lived to the fullest.”

or

"There's usually less room for caution than for impulsiveness in a life lived to the fullest.”
 

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