Level Up (A5E) The Advanced Fighter

[Tales and Chronicles]

This is why I do not hink there should be a class called "Fighter" in the book, because it leads to this sort of thing. There is no reason that martial characters automatically need to be simpler than magic using characters, but if you attach the name fighter to something people will expect it to be simple

You could flip this on its head, but only with discipline. A subclass system where the subclass isn't how the fighter fights, but why the fighter fights. Then the why would almost entirely give out-of-combat abilities.

Likewise, I disagree with the first premise of the design goals, so I do not regard this as a good class. But it does what it set out to do well.

I actually agree with you. Every classes ''fights''. D&D is a combat game with fancy bits. I'm okay with that; all classes are combatant with fancy ribbons. So, do we need a class that only fights and do not have said fancy ribbons for the sake of ''simplicity''? I personally dont think so.

My actual favorite take on the fighter, and beware its a hot one, is to have the fighter the specialist of enhancing himself with magic items. The fighter is mundane, no doubt about it. He needs magical stuff do deal with the magic of the setting and to stay relevant next to his spellcasters companions. A fighter without any magical macguffin will never be close to achieving the versatility and narrative control of spellcasters.

So I say: embrace the Christmas three, embrace the old-school narrative of the adventurer delving dungeons and facing monsters to find magical treasure to be equipped enough to take on another more difficult delve! Embrace the idea that the fighter is the ultimate master of equipment! BUT, dont let the magic item distribution in the hand of the DM: classes should be in the hands to their players.

So...a martial take on the artificer: a warrior that can get its hand on a bunch of magical gadgets to enhance himself. The ultimate Batman class, a mundane fighter boosted by its incredible equipment and wits.

By adventuring, this warrior finds or creates magic consumables, magic items, generates blessings and charms, acquires boons!

Arthur is a fighter with a magical sword.
Achilles is a fighter with a blessing
Robin Hood is ....well he's a rogue

I'll probably try my hand at it later tonight of tomorrow, stay tuned.

and thanks a lot for you comments, as always.

 

[NotAYakk]

My take is that, after 6 years and 1000000000000 post, short rest are too DM dependent to be use as a power recovery mechanic. The minute on DM or group has a hard time finding some place in the adventure to take one hour of rest but not a full 8 hour, the game start unbalancing.

Both 1 hour and 8 hours means you have disengaged from the enemy and are under no threat.

 

[glass]

Both 1 hour and 8 hours means you have disengaged from the enemy and are under no threat.

Quite. Five or ten minutes for a short rest works, because in the vast majority of cases, you are going to be able to get it after every encounter. One-hour short rest doesn't, because it might still be per encounter, or it might be basically never (so equivalent to per day).

But since we are aiming for compatibility, there is not a lot Level Up can do about this except include the "shorter short rest" varient from the DMG and recommend its use. EDIT: Actually, can they? I am assuming the shorter short rests are not in the SRD, which might make things slightly more complicated.

_
glass.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Both 1 hour and 8 hours means you have disengaged from the enemy and are under no threat.

Quite. Five or ten minutes for a short rest works, because in the vast majority of cases, you are going to be able to get it after every encounter. One-hour short rest doesn't, because it might still be per encounter, or it might be basically never (so equivalent to per day).

Exactly. Its quite rare in my games where the party has 1 hours of safe rest but wouldnt be able to take a long rest. The only I see it is in time sensitive situations, but again this is DM dependent, which I dont like all that much. I prefer the players manage their power expenditure/recovery by themselves.

But since we are aiming for compatibility, there is not a lot Level Up can do about this except include the "shorter short rest" varient from the DMG and recommend its use.

Again, if all A5E can do is reprint the PHB and add the variant features from the DMG in the sidebar, why buy it? I already have those books! Its supposed to be a stand alone, advanced take on 5e, not a book of options and variants for 5e like WotC will likely publish this fall. That would includes modifying the base assumptions when necessary.

I think, from what Morrus said, that the idea of ''compatibility'' is more abut being able to use the PHB classes in an A5E game and the same mechanic will be there, even if modified.

Lets say a PHB fighters enter a A5E game. He will still be able to recover its Action Surge on a short rest, even if in the A5E the short rest takes a day or 5 minutes. If a barbarian has advantage on STR checks, he would still be able to benefit from it, even if Advantages stacks or are now a flat +5.

 

[dave2008]

Maybe? To be frank, I questioned myself on this project today. I've seen a lot of people today say that ''you cant do this'' ''you cant go there'' because A) it would not be D&D, B) it should completely compatible with 5e's PHB.

So now my fear is that this focus on keeping simple and close in design to 5e will transform what should have been a reforge of the system to bring a different, advanced gameplay into a list of options and knobs the DM would be able to turn on/off, a little like an extended rules variants chapter from the DMG.

I kinda hope for a game that would play with the base assumption of 5e to bring something new: using a different rest or healing rules per default, tweaking classes and spells, a new tale on skills and proficiency, maybe even a different take on magic.

It sounds like you want something other than the proposed goals of LevelUp!

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

It sounds like you want something other than the proposed goals of LevelUp!

So you think the game wont play with the rest mechanic? The power balance of the class? The magic system?

I had in mind an ''AiME'' style of book, personally. Not in the sense of low magic, but with different assumptions (Audience system, Journey system, hoard generating and weapon traits system, cultures instead of races, culture feats etc).

 

[Micah Sweet]

One of my groups did it by taking pot-shots at them from an airship.

The first dragon I ever slew personally in a game was with a sniper rifle at long range. Still felt pretty good.

 

[Asisreo]

You keep bringing up this point.

I would say that since 5E doesn't provide you with a satisfactory answer - unlike most gamers - you won't find it here either.

That actually isn't my point. I don't believe the base 5e fighter needs any "fixes" at higher levels.

 

[dave2008]

So you think the game wont play with the rest mechanic? The power balance of the class? The magic system?

I had in mind an ''AiME'' style of book, personally. Not in the sense of low magic, but with different assumptions (Audience system, Journey system, hoard generating and weapon traits system, cultures instead of races, culture feats etc).

TBH, I don't have any idea what they will eventually do with LevelUp! So I guess: yes and no to all of those?!

I really think I am just wasting everyone's time today - time to go do some yard work!

 

[NotAYakk]

That actually isn't my point. I don't believe the base 5e fighter needs any "fixes" at higher levels.

Um, you also said:

How does this solve the issue that a caster can do anything and a fighter must rely on the DM to do cool things at upper tiers?

To remedy that situation, you would need a "fix".

So your point is... that relying on the DM to do cool things at higher levels is perfectly ok with you.

And that is ok. You can play a commoner class and rely on the DM to do cool things at higher levels just as easily as the 5e fighter or any LevelUp fighter-ish variant or whatever.