The Adventures of the Knights of Spellforge Keep

Victim · Dec 19, 2002

Weaponmaster only works with melee weapons. I've only seen the first movie so far, but based on that and the books, I see no need for epic members of the Fellowship. 10th levels should be able to cover most things.

med stud · Dec 19, 2002

(High- jacking alert)
I agree with Victim. If Legolas (or anyone else) was epic, then they wouldnt have to run from the orcs in Moria, and he would kill the troll in a partial action.

Malachai_rose · Dec 19, 2002

like I said ELH all the way

If you havent seen the battle for Helms Deep then you might not understand but TRUST me, All 3 of em are ELH material

Way above level 10. Legolas does something using the ride skill in the movie that must be like DC 45, heh. Trust me the Urukai must be like CR 3 or 4 themselves so level 10 PC's would get slaughterd doing what they do in the movie (ie... 10,000 Urukai vs. them).

Malachai_rose · Dec 19, 2002

Orcs in 3rd edition are not the Orcs from Tolkiens books. DnD orcs are lame and laughable. Tolkiens Orc's are to be feared, and the Urukai even more so. You just don't do the things they do with out being at or near the ELH. And the Cave Troll was not the Troll from the Monster manual... it was wayyy bigger and much worse.

Also even at high levels 100's of foes, even lowly DnD orcs can kill you. All they do is all attempt to grapple you. The first few you kill but after that it's a numbers game and strength checks make no allowance for level so it's just a matte of time before ytou are held down and repeatedly CdG'ed by the other 90 Orcs you didnt kill. In mass even lowly CR 1/2's can kill you. A grapple followed with a few 3x crit CdG's means I would have ran just like they did Epic or not

Just my fervent 2 cents though.

Wee Jas · Dec 19, 2002

Vorpal

Vorpal weapons don't work on undead (except vampires).

I'd trounce him.. lol.

Victim · Dec 19, 2002

Malachai_rose said:
Orcs in 3rd edition are not the Orcs from Tolkiens books. DnD orcs are lame and laughable. Tolkiens Orc's are to be feared, and the Urukai even more so. You just don't do the things they do with out being at or near the ELH. And the Cave Troll was not the Troll from the Monster manual... it was wayyy bigger and much worse.

Also even at high levels 100's of foes, even lowly DnD orcs can kill you. All they do is all attempt to grapple you. The first few you kill but after that it's a numbers game and strength checks make no allowance for level so it's just a matte of time before ytou are held down and repeatedly CdG'ed by the other 90 Orcs you didnt kill. In mass even lowly CR 1/2's can kill you. A grapple followed with a few 3x crit CdG's means I would have ran just like they did Epic or not Just my fervent 2 cents though.

Not really. DnD orc warriors will usually beat up human ones, and most people aren't warriors. But I assumed that LotR orcs had a few levels to them as well, and probably not in warrior. By about tenth level though, characters should be able to one shot low level fighters or barbarians.

Grappling includes base attack bonus in the check. Even pinned characters aren't helpless. So, no, orcs wouldn't quite grapple and CDG high level heroes. And 90 orcs wouldn't be able to threaten a character all at once anyway.

IIRC, Rohan fielded an army at Helm's Deep too. It's not like it was 10 000 versus 3. But a group of level 10 characters that could act against the army itself - as opposed to being largely neutralized by the adventurers with the enemy army - provide a significant advantage. But, IIRC again, in the book the battle still would have been lost if some of those angry ent-like things hadn't intercepted tons of orcs.

Yes, the cave troll seemed more like a giant. 10th level characters can kill those too.

Buying skill bonuses through magic is pretty cheap. Throw some effects with Balance or Ride bonuses on a elf with an already high dex, and then you have a Legolas capable of pretty outlandish stunts.

Wee Jas · Dec 19, 2002

"Who would win? Vek. Cause Legolis isn't even REAL!", said Orthos.

YEAHHHHHHHH!

fenzer · Dec 20, 2002

Dr Midnight said:
...and anyone else who came out to say hi. Stop lurking! Post, damn you! I'd buy you all a drink if I could. It's nice to have people who read your stuff.

Doc, I've been here since the beginning and will be here to the end. I know I don't post much but don't think for a minute that I don't stop by here nearly every day.

Here's to many more great Doc M. adventures! And if you have a seat left, I'll take you up on that drink.

Lela · Dec 20, 2002

While I don't drink, I do have one thing to say about this who'd kill whom debate.

GimliGimliGimliGimliGimliGimliGimliGimliGimliGimliGimliGimliGimliGimliGimliGimliGimliGimliGimliGimliGimliGimliGimliGimliGimliGimliGimliGimliGimliGimliGimliGimliGimliGimliGimliGimliGimliGimliGimli

Oh, and Gimli.

Hammerhead · Dec 20, 2002

Having seen TTT, there is no way that Aragorn, Legolas, or Gimli are in any way close to Epic Level. Notice the fall that Aragorn took, one that dazed him and left him unconscious. Also, Gimli and Aragorn were forced to run from orcs on a small bridge, where they could only come a few at a time. Further, orcs were dropped with one hit from the bows of defenders, something unaccomplishable unless all the orcs were relatively low level, or that all of the defenders are high level.

Even if Legolas killed Vek, he would come back, Harm Legolas, and kill him.