The Answer is not (always) on your Character Sheet

[bloodtide]

You are veering into strategy vs tactics territory and ignoring the fact that many folks like mechanical combat. You really cant blame them either when significant amount of the rules space in books is dedicated to combat. So, while you may occasionally dispatch a foe through a clever ruse, you will eventually have to actually fight by the combat rules.

Yes, a lot of people like the mechanical combat. And that is fine. Though if your finding an answer off the character sheet, your not sitting there with a stack of rules and dice.

If you examine the editions of D&D, many of the items you list here were difficult to accomplish. 3E/PF1 had rules for just about anything. Sure, you could knock stuff over, push a guy, dirty trick a monster, etc.. but it was mechanically bad to do so unless you put items on your character sheet that made the PC good at it. 4E/PF2 is built around tactics so that your moves/abilities/etc.. are designed to work in a teamwork fashion. So, yes, taking character sheet actions is often the most efficient and successful way to engage a combat encounter. I do think 5E leans more into the improv area with (dis)advantage mechanic, but for many, it feels too simplified and overused.

This depends on what you think is difficult. All the numbers are difficult for some people.

But things Beyond the rules is the whole point. The vast majority of mechanics other then "just do hp damage" are "bad" at best. The vast majority of all game content creators for a game like D&D have roughly zero interest in adding anything to the game other then "does hp damage".

So, we are back to the rulings over rules topic. When do you ditch the rules and use rulings? I dont think there is a universal answer becasue this thread alone proves that some folks like mechanical guidance. It helps steer the GM/player towards expected play that is fairly arbitrated. Though, others enjoy the creative freedom a rulings philosophy can offer, at least in theory. It all comes down to the trust which I think is difficult to establish, which is why rules are popular with many gamers.

My answer would be the rules are suggestions, and always take a back seat to fun.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I'm not sure I follow. The player got talked out of a rule-based combat benefit because the GM overruled due to personal melee combat knowledge?

No. The GM and the player were both knowledgeable, so the latter talked the former into giving them a benefit that would otherwise require a purchased ability or a lucky die roll, when in practice, most of the group couldn't have done that.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Thats interesting becasue I often think a core resolution mechanics might get a little too repetitive for me. However, I am a big fan of Traveller which is essentially 2D6+statmod+skill rank meet or beat 8 (maybe 10 or 12 in very difficult and/or disadvantaged situations.) With the large number of skills in Traveller, though, it always feels like there is plenty of opportunity is available to interest me as player and ref. I even liked the same resolution mechanics in PbtA games, though I tend to prefer those as short campaigns as I do eventually lose interest in them.

There's circumstances when it can--and it doesn't always provide the distinction among characters I'd like--but a core resolution system at least rarely leaves you completely out to sea when it comes how to run a situation, unlike the case with overly exception-based designed.

Move over to 5E D&D and (dis)advantage feels like a core resolution mechanic. Though something about it feels like a shortcut of all the mechanics in place in the system that makes it feel very uninspired. I could see that as a release valve for some folks and understand why its also very popular with them.

I'd argue that A/D is an attempt to do two things: eliminate excessive bonus/penalty hunting, and do it in a way that is very quick. I suspect its approach is only really attractive to people who place quite a high value on speed.

 

[Wolfpack48]

No. The GM and the player were both knowledgeable, so the latter talked the former into giving them a benefit that would otherwise require a purchased ability or a lucky die roll, when in practice, most of the group couldn't have done that.

Ah ok. Lol, now I am thinking of a scene where each player is in a line is making a case for a benefit not in the rules, and whoever makes a good argument gets it! And now I'm thinking of a scene from the movie Airplane!

Well, I agree there's a possibility it can get out of hand, but I can only speak to our own group where none of the players are particularly rulebound, and these kinds of situations tend to only come up in passing with a particular scene and ideas are getting tossed about. Typically there's a baseline mechanic in BRP that resolves most tests, but 'skilled play' as I think someone referred to above for thinking outside the box could get a temporary bonus on a single test. No one ever got a permanent feat or skill bonus for engaged play, and most of these rewards simply boosted the fun in passing. I'm trying to recall a situation where someone felt left out or cheated due to rewards for engaged play and I'm having a hard time remembering one. I can only say every table is different.

 

[payn]

(Dis)advantage doesn’t really resolve anything though. One still has to make the check first.

It’s a short cut that bypasses all checks into the nearest thing 5E has to a universal resolution mechanic for sake of the discussion. Not sure why but In comparison it feels less satisfying. YMMV

 

[hawkeyefan]

It’s a short cut that bypasses all checks into the nearest thing 5E has to a universal resolution mechanic for sake of the discussion. Not sure why but In comparison it feels less satisfying. YMMV

Isn’t 5e’s resolution mechanic just about always roll d20 add numbers and beat a target?

What other resolution system is there in 5e?

 

[pemerton]

Isn’t 5e’s resolution mechanic just about always roll d20 add numbers and beat a target?

That's my understanding.

What other resolution system is there in 5e?

The structure of turns, and movement, and damage, in combat.

And in some contexts - mostly spell use - stipulation by the player who controls that "element".

 

[kenada]

It’s a short cut that bypasses all checks into the nearest thing 5E has to a universal resolution mechanic for sake of the discussion. Not sure why but In comparison it feels less satisfying. YMMV

I’m not really following. As noted by @hawkeyefan and @pemerton, isn’t the universal resolution mechanic d20 + mods vs DC? Advantage and disadvantage just tweak how the roll is made (as an alternative to all the different modifiers and stacking rules from previous editions).

 

[payn]

I’m not really following. As noted by @hawkeyefan and @pemerton, isn’t the universal resolution mechanic d20 + mods vs DC? Advantage and disadvantage just tweak how the roll is made (as an alternative to all the different modifiers and stacking rules from previous editions).

Applied to any situation and invalidates the mods. Guess that’s best I can explain it.

 

[kenada]

Applied to any situation and invalidates the mods. Guess that’s best I can explain it.

Like if there are multiple ways to get advantage, they don’t stack, so it can feel bad when something doesn’t pay off because you already got advantage (whereas, e.g., multiple circumstance bonuses would stack in 3e)?