No, I think the point is that advantage is so outsized an influence with 5e's tiny RNG, the real game is just getting it.
The Answer is not (always) on your Character Sheet
One of my players...Kyle....is a good example of a Off the Character Sheet type of player.
Kyle always plays sneaky stealthy character. But NOT in the 3E/5E style of a "striker doing tons of damage". He plays a 2E type Thief that Avoids All Direct Combat nearly all of the time.
In melee, his characters will do battlefield control or helpful actions. Opening or closing doors, starting fires, knocking over furniture to block passageways, cutting tapestries off walls, and so on.
Of course, his character needs an environment they can react in...but that is not a problem for me. Though it is common for many DMs to do the "video game environment", where the characters can't touch or effect anything except for a few marked things.
Also, Illusionists in general...and any edition....have a lot of image type spells that have little or often no mechanical effect. But they can still have huge effects on game play. You can make an illusion of say a bag of coins to trick many foes into doing something like stopping to pick it up or step on a trap. This is "Beyond the Rules", though using the spell is "On the Character Sheet". And, oddly, many of the DMs that would ignore or not allow a PC to drop a real bag of gold and have any effect in the game...will suddenly be "Okay" if a spellcaster makes an illusion of a bag of gold and have a huge impact in game play. But then too, some DMs make all illusions, except the mechanical ones, useless.
Kyle always plays sneaky stealthy character. But NOT in the 3E/5E style of a "striker doing tons of damage". He plays a 2E type Thief that Avoids All Direct Combat nearly all of the time.
In melee, his characters will do battlefield control or helpful actions. Opening or closing doors, starting fires, knocking over furniture to block passageways, cutting tapestries off walls, and so on.
Of course, his character needs an environment they can react in...but that is not a problem for me. Though it is common for many DMs to do the "video game environment", where the characters can't touch or effect anything except for a few marked things.
Also, Illusionists in general...and any edition....have a lot of image type spells that have little or often no mechanical effect. But they can still have huge effects on game play. You can make an illusion of say a bag of coins to trick many foes into doing something like stopping to pick it up or step on a trap. This is "Beyond the Rules", though using the spell is "On the Character Sheet". And, oddly, many of the DMs that would ignore or not allow a PC to drop a real bag of gold and have any effect in the game...will suddenly be "Okay" if a spellcaster makes an illusion of a bag of gold and have a huge impact in game play. But then too, some DMs make all illusions, except the mechanical ones, useless.
I guess I don’t do enough 5e. I don’t recall that’s being an issue, but it’s been 4~5 years since I last ran 5e.
Thomas Shey
Legend
It not only does that, if you have four things that give advantage and one that gives disadvantage, you get--nothing. Same the other way around.
Thomas Shey
Legend
The maths of Advantage/Disadvantage are kind of peculiar, and depend to some extent on what the basic chance of success before it applies.
Lanefan
Victoria Rules
This is why I've so enjoyed playing Illusionists over the years: just about everything they do is outside the box in one way or another.
That said, I far prefer the actually-effective 1e illusions rather than the highly-nerfed 3-4-5e versions.
I don't know what you have in mind when you say that 4e D&D illusions are "nerfed".
Lanefan
Victoria Rules
I only have the first 4e PH which doesn't have Illusion spells (or Illusionists as a mage variant); the closest I can find in it are Hallucinatory Creature (12th) and Hallucinatory Item (5th) as rituals. If illusions are discussed further in the later PHs, that's not something I can see.
And they're nerfed from what illusions could do in 1e.
In 1e, Spectral Force (3rd-level Illus spell) could affect all five senses, including touch; if you believed the illusion to be real it could hurt you or even kill you. H-Creature here - at a considerably higher equivalent level - specifically states it affects sight, smell, and hearing but leaves it an open question whether touch is affected...in a rather messy way. It says in its examples of what the caster can have the creature "do" that the caster can have the creature chew on nearby plants, but doesn't state whether those plants will behave as if being chewed on. It clearly states that if the viewer touches the creature it's revealed to be fake but says nothing about what happens if the creature touches - or attacks! - the viewer. And HC only generates a creature, where Spectral Force could generate anything the caster could dream up; though in return it does last for 24 hours where SF only lasts as long as the caster can maintain concentration.
H-Item seems to be the equivalent of 1e's Phantasmal Force (1st-level Illus spell), affecting vision only; and again trades non-concentrating duration for the loss of ability to have it move and-or be anything other than a single object.
In either case, these two rituals seem to somewhat limit the think-outside-the-box options provided by the Phantasmal and Spectral Force spells.
Wolfpack48
Adventurer
So thought exercise:
Player 1 is extroverted, enjoys the improv part of roleplay and often comes up with ideas during play. They are playing a character with low INT, CHA and social skills.
Player 2 is introverted, doesn't prefer the improv part of roleplaying and rarely comes up with ideas during play. They are playing a character with high INT, CHA and social skills.
How do you run the game without penalizing either player?
Player 1 is extroverted, enjoys the improv part of roleplay and often comes up with ideas during play. They are playing a character with low INT, CHA and social skills.
Player 2 is introverted, doesn't prefer the improv part of roleplaying and rarely comes up with ideas during play. They are playing a character with high INT, CHA and social skills.
How do you run the game without penalizing either player?
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Consider stats only when making the checks in the end. Use a social system that does not reward or penalize acting ability, gregariousness, or whatever.
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