The Assassin Loophole

[Al]

Re: Well, if an assassin...

...turns to being Good, he wouldn't want to use the evil abilities of the assassin prc.

Otherwise he's not being Good, and if the player insists on using the assassin abilities, then he has clearly not turned from the Evil of being an assassin, and is therefore still of Evil alignment.

Cheers

Maggan

Whilst this may make sense for Poison Use and Death Attack, how does this work with respect to sneak attack, Uncanny Dodge and spells.

Sneak attack cannot be considered necessarily evil as a lawful good rogue would have access to it. Similarly, the lawful good rogue has Uncanny Dodge. The assassin spell list is viable for a lawful good wizard (for the most part: some of the supplementary spells in e.g. S&S are assassin-only).

Why then, in becoming non-evil, must the assassin forfeit abilities which are perfectly accessible to non-evil non-assassins?

The argument could run 'to turn from a way of life', but this is an extreme case. Whilst an assassin rising to lawful good might revile his former lifestyle, an assassin who drifts to neutral is likely to be more pragmatic: he could retain the abilities but change the lifestyle, using his skills to combat evil (or whatever). Since the three abilities listed above are not inherently evil, there is no moral reason why a pragmatic neutral ex-assassin would not retain them.

 

[Darkness]

The evil alignment is a role-playing restriction, and role-playing restrictions must not be used to balance mechanical effects - so it wouldn't be unbalanced to let him keep his abilities, at least.

 

[Drawmack]

We house ruled all ability loss. Only abilities gained divinly (such as divine casting) can be lost. Any ability that is dependent only on the individual cannot be lost. However you cannot progress in said Class/PrC.

A note on the side:

An assassin commited at least one murder. In a D&D world magic is easily accessible by the law and the assassins probably would have them kill someone that mattered and not just a street urchin. Therefor the authorities, if there are any, are probably looking for them.

Additionally the assassins are a blood thirsty brood who plys their trade well outside the boundries of the law. This does not sound like a group that will let people simply walk away.

IMC: If a character put this into their background I'd allowed it but they'd get the ''Are you sure?'' treatment first. They would proceed to be hunted by both the authorities and the assassins. Although since I have a house rule that you have to be offered a PrC in game I don't think that anyone would try this.

 

[Frostmarrow]

The evil alignment is a role-playing restriction, and role-playing restrictions must not be used to balance mechanical effects - so it wouldn't be unbalanced to let him keep his abilities, at least.

Good call. There must be some kind of restriction, though. I think it should be impossible to advance as assassin if you weren't evil in the same way monks can't advance if they stray from Law.

Ex-Monks: A monk who becomes nonlawful cannot gain new levels as a monk but retain all monk abilities.

Ex-Assassins: An assassin who becomes nonevil cannot gain new levels as an assassin but retain all assassin abilities.

 

[Darkness]

Good call. There must be some kind of restriction, though. I think it should be impossible to advance as assassin if you weren't evil in the same way monks can't advance if they stray from Law.

Ex-Monks: A monk who becomes nonlawful cannot gain new levels as a monk but retain all monk abilities.

Ex-Assassins: An assassin who becomes nonevil cannot gain new levels as an assassin but retain all assassin abilities.

*nods* Yes, that's my take on it as well.

 

[green slime]

Well Darkness, like much that is EVIL and VILE that does sound reasonable on the surface...

I would add though that an ex-assassin Good character would NEVER use the poison use or the death attack ability. In fact, would probably be so ashamed of their past, as to try and not use any of the former abilities gained by levels as an assassin.

Again, not a game balance issue, more a RPG-flavour issue.

 

[Frostmarrow]

Well Darkness, like much that is EVIL and VILE that does sound reasonable on the surface...

I would add though that an ex-assassin Good character would NEVER use the poison use or the death attack ability. In fact, would probably be so ashamed of their past, as to try and not use any of the former abilities gained by levels as an assassin.

Again, not a game balance issue, more a RPG-flavour issue.

You're saying that a good ex-assassin would poison himself on purpose once every 20 times handling poison, out of shame?

 

[herald]

here is the problem I see.

Assassin: Hey Bob, I was talking to the Guild master and he says that he's got a job for you to do.

Ex-assassin: Er um well, theres a problem, you see, I've had a change of heart and ...well I don't do that sort of thing any more.

Assassin: What sort of thing? You don't kill for money?

Ex-assassin: Oh heavens no. After all, I'm still an adventurer.

Assassin: Really? So what's the problem.

Ex-assassin: I can't take money in advance and kill people in a premeditated method any longer.

Assassin: But you just said that your still a adventurer.

Ex-assassin: Well that's more on a manslaughter than a murder....Look, it's all very complicated, I could try and explain, but it would take to long. Just understand that I'm good now and I don't do that sort of thing any longer. Okay?

Assassin: So....your good now?

Ex-assassin: Yes...

Assassin: And your bound to go off and do the right and honorable thing right?

Ex-assassin: Well, I suppose, I' really haven't thought about that.

Assassin: Ah well, nothing to worry about, you take care. Well take care of this business. Farewell.

Ex-assassin: Leaving so soon? We'll still be friends won't we.

Assassin, oh don't you worry, we'll be in touch.

 

[Frostmarrow]

here is the problem I see.

...

Ex-assassin: Leaving so soon? We'll still be friends won't we.

Assassin, oh don't you worry, we'll be in touch.

You see a problem - I see a great character!

 

[herald]

Problems are not reasons not to play characters.

Only rules that game masters use should prevent characters.

Sounds like you might have some fun with this.