The *automatic* success/failure rule

[kreynolds]

The poll, though, has it 23 against and 16 for. For it being a core rule, that is. Interesting.

Technically, it's 27 for and 12 against (11 for "keep it in as a variant" and 16 for "keep it core"), as both of these options, in the end, are Core anyway. Only 12 people want it out altogether.

 

[Simulacrum]

Technically, it's 27 for and 12 against (11 for "keep it in as a variant" and 16 for "keep it core"), as both of these options, in the end, are Core anyway. Only 12 people want it out altogether.

nope thats not how it is meant. the option means *keep it out but of core but leave it as option*
Or the CORE option would be totaly useless

it's 23 to 16

 

[Gaiden]

Statistically, the auto fail/success works against the players. If they want it fine, but at least give it as an option.

 

[hong]

nope thats not how it is meant. the option means *keep it out but of core but leave it as option*
Or the CORE option would be totaly useless

it's 23 to 16

Spin, damn you. SPIN!!

 

[Li Shenron]

I thought it advocated the open rolls where natural 1 = -20, a natural 20 = +20 and then roll again adding the next dice result to the roll (including another natural 1/20).

Speaking of variants, I think this one is the best and most interesting around. It never rules out the possibility of an unbelievable deed (such as hitting a fly at the end of your crossbow range, when the fly is hasted, mage-armored, shielded (the new spell) and hiding behind 9/10 cover, you are not proficient with the crossbow, you are using it in one hand and the fly is engaged in melee with a friend of yours), but it makes it much more difficult than 5% as it is now.

 

[Gez]

yeah right tumbling through dragons isnt dangerous, as isnt jumping and climbing and disarming traps and various non coombat related things like those above
(bluffing in combat, even hiding and moving silent etc...)
-
and in the faq it says that it applies to grappling as well
-
its simple as this. It's an odd rule that doesnt follows how the system was laid out.

Tumbling in combat has been adressed in the splatbook, and will probably be an opposed roll.

Climbing, hiding and moving silently are not as dramatic as fighting, even if they're among the most dramatic skills (with Swim and Ride also). They don't need to be as detailed and complicated as combat. Do you use minis when the character climbs ?

Skills, on the whole, are less dramatic than fight, and thus more abstracted. Most of times, you make only one skill test for the action (but climb, swim, and move silently often requires more), whereas you make a whole lot of rolls in combat.

This also mean that if that autosuccess/failure rule applied on skills, it would be unfair: if you botch one attack roll, you don't lose the fight.

Personally, I don't min-max much my characters, and my main DM tend to be somewhat ratbastardish, so my PCs have crappy AC, and the monsters we face have insane AC and attack bonus.

Personally, I would hate to roll a 20, and hear "you missed it, you needed to roll 3 points higher".


Ah, and...

Get RID of it, it definately complicates the rules. 4 7.27%
Keep it in, as a variant and let the players decide. 15 27.27%
keep it Core 26 47.27%
I never cared for that rule and houseruled it anyway. (+10; -10 variant) 10 18.18%

Those that are really opposed are 14, 4+10. The 15 that see it as a variant are rather neutral about it. From your wording "let them decide", this option even seem to involve presenting both rules together and letting people make a choice; it could have been voted even by people personally prefering the automatic success/failure but knowing it's not everyone's cup of tea (a reasonable opinion). Even if only 2 people did that, out of the 15, you would have an absolute majority of people in this poll favorable to this rule.

But 26 are strongly proponent of it.

Remember, you have not asked "what rule do you use", but "how the revision should present these rules", as an option, as the default, or not at all.

 

[kreynolds]

nope thats not how it is meant.

How convenient.