The availability of magic items

[Lum The Mad]

I consider starting a campaign in my own world/setting using the Pathfinder rules. But I am not at all clear on how to handle the availability of magic items. What do you consider to be the best method?

-Should players just be able to buy most things they would need? (Forgotten-Realms-like)

-Should they only be able to buy stuff that is almost necessary to survive. That is: potions of healing, wands of healing?

-No magic for sale at all. Magic items are found, not bought. (I don't think D&D/Pathfinder is the right system for this kind of game, but you could try to convince me)

 

[S'mon]

I generally find that setting a fairly low gp limit and allowing the commission or purchase of items from a standard source (eg 3.5 DMG, 4e PHB) works best. It has good versimilitude, whereas the pre-3e 'no items for sale, ever' rather stretches credulity IMO. It allows for a degree of PC customisation and gives PCs something to spend their money on. Limit it and they have a reason to adventure at high levels, for powerful items - or the necessaries for crafting such items.

For 3e the big problem I found was that some incredibly powerful items fall under the 100,000gp 'metropolis' cap. A Daern's Instant Fortress might not be game-breaking, but according to 3e it costs around the same as a mundane stone tower! Capping the 'Metropolis' gp limit at 10,000 gp works well, enough for +2 weapons & +3 armour in 3e. Another good limit is 3,000gp, which allows for +1 stuff but not +2.

 

[Ahnehnois]

I (running 3.X) pretty much allow the players to get anything they want if they're in a big city (and I'm generous elsewhere as well). I even handwave the custom items that should take a lot of time and be hard to craft and just let them buy their sword of choice overnight.

Ultimately, I have a few hours in a session, and I don't care to spend them talking with a magic item vendor unless that character is dramatically interesting, and I don't want to spend time haggling over price or availability unless it's important to the plot. Occasionally I have established merchant NPCs with huge but limited stashes, or deprived PCs from urban areas at length; they just save what they can't sell and buy what they can without much complaining.

That said, when I'm equipping NPCs I just give them whatever I feel like with little regard for cost, which usually ends up being pretty generous, so I've never had any balance issues.

I've found that skipping details like that has dramatically improved the quantity and quality of what I get done in a session over the years.

 

[hopeless]

Okay...

But on the reverse side wouldn't putting a limit on the gp also apply when the PCs are looking to sell magic items they either don't want or need to sell to pay for certain other items such as upgrading armour and weapons?

I recall the facebook game had a rule where selling items to the shop cost them a fifth less than what they would sell them for.

Would the PCs be willing to tolerate that in an actual game rather than a facebook one?

Pathfinder as i recall starts off with masterwork items first and then going to enchanted items perhaps it will require completing quests to get those higher plused items since the only ones who can create them are high level spellcasters'?

Unless you find them yourselves but that leaves other options for the dm after all where did these items come from? Who created them? Did they belong to an order who as soon as they know the PCs have them will hunt them down to demand their return after all from their view its their property!

How would the settlements regard adventurers' and their loot?

Would the Pcs care for staying in one location they regard as home or risk moving around not knowing if the next place they arrive at will regard them as bandits or a resource to be plundered or dealt with carefully because they either are being run by a bad guy or seek to use them to remove a problem of their own and aren't interested in paying a PCs usually high asking price?

 

[Crothian]

What I like to do is have a set inventory. If the Pcs don;'t buy an item then there is a chance that it gets bought by someone else. This also allows the Pcs to possible save up to buy something. Each month there is a chance that something new will be available as well. The bigger the city the more items for sale but also the higher chance that the items get bought by others.

 

[the Jester]

Magic items are loot, not gear, in my mind- which means they aren't for sale in any kind of easily available way, but people do sometimes sell them.

IMC you are much more likely to find alchemical items for sale than magic items. And depending on where you are, what magic you do find for sale might be quite limited- in the town of Restenford, you might find a +1 weapon or two and a handful of potions, while in the city of Greyhawk you could prolly find most anything given enough time and effort (caveat: finding it might mean finding someone who can direct you to the dungeon it's lost in or who can make it if you do them a favor or...).

 

[the Jester]

But on the reverse side wouldn't putting a limit on the gp also apply when the PCs are looking to sell magic items they either don't want or need to sell to pay for certain other items such as upgrading armour and weapons?

Should the town that needed to hire pcs at first level to defend them from the kobold raiders have the millions of gps lying around to pay for a 30th level item? No. Choose your buyers wisely.

I recall the facebook game had a rule where selling items to the shop cost them a fifth less than what they would sell them for.

Would the PCs be willing to tolerate that in an actual game rather than a facebook one?

In 4e, the default is that you get 20% of the value of items you sell, with some exceptions (e.g. gems, rare items).

Would the players "tolerate" that? It seems to me that they have a few choices:

1. "Tolerate" the dm running loot by the RAW and accept the 20% value in gold.
2. Disenchant the item for residuum- again, getting 20% value (albeit in residuum instead of gold).
3. Keep the item for later improvement, as a trophy or gift, etc. or give it to a friend or follower.
4. Walk away from the game.

Frankly, if anyone wants to take option 4 because the dm is running loot by RAW (or whatever way he wants to run it, really) they probably don't belong in that game anyway.

 

[S'mon]

But on the reverse side wouldn't putting a limit on the gp also apply when the PCs are looking to sell magic items they either don't want or need to sell to pay for certain other items such as upgrading armour and weapons?

Yes, there'll naturally be a limit to the amount a PC can sell a magic item for. Using the gp purchase limit as a sale limit can work ok as default, but there may well be buyers willing to pay a lot more for certain items, if they don't just commandeer the item. Eg a city might have a 10,000 gp limit, but the Duke has 200,000gp in his treasury might be willing to pay 50,000gp for a powerful destructive magic item he could use in an upcoming war.

For a "default 1st level starter town" setup (which could be a smallish town, a borderland fortress, etc) I would use a 3,000gp limit for both purchase and sale, barring exceptional circumstances. If Pathfinder is like 3e then you can buy items at book price (100%) and sell at 50%, which seems reasonable.

4e default is buy at either 100% or 110-140% (GM's choice), sell at 20%, which is pretty harsh.

 

[Mercurius]

This may sound facetious, but what works best is what makes the most sense for the specific campaign world. What sort of feel are you going for? How prevalent is magic? Is it openly accepted and used or is it shunned or hidden? This is an opportunity to add some color to your world.

In the 4E campaign I was running, I followed a general guideline that the players could buy any Heroic tier items (1-10 level) that were common or uncommon but not rare. Paragon items or rare items were very hard to find and the players had to ask first.

The other problem I've found, with 4E at least, is out-growing well-loved magic items that have a story to them. What I like doing is having magic items "unpack" in terms of power as a player goes up in level. This would be a "rare" item, even a "baby artifact" one that was created in an era in which magical crafting was superior. As a general rule, once the PC is three levels higher than the magic item's level, the item "levels up" to the next tier (+5 levels, or +1 bonus). For example, when a character turns 12th level, their 9th level magic item "levels up" to 14th level in terms of bonus, but also maybe adding some kind of power.

This approach also helps get around the problem of trading or selling off old items in favor of new ones, and allows for a PC to find a powerful magic item at an early level but not know its full abilities until later on.

 

[hopeless]

Interesting

The other problem I've found, with 4E at least, is out-growing well-loved magic items that have a story to them. What I like doing is having magic items "unpack" in terms of power as a player goes up in level. This would be a "rare" item, even a "baby artifact" one that was created in an era in which magical crafting was superior. As a general rule, once the PC is three levels higher than the magic item's level, the item "levels up" to the next tier (+5 levels, or +1 bonus). For example, when a character turns 12th level, their 9th level magic item "levels up" to 14th level in terms of bonus, but also maybe adding some kind of power.

This approach also helps get around the problem of trading or selling off old items in favor of new ones, and allows for a PC to find a powerful magic item at an early level but not know its full abilities until later on.

Maybe even preparing by securing the residium they need for the upgrading of their existing item perhaps going so far as to introduce tales of powerful items either growing weaker over time to disappearing entirely since their new owner is unaware of their legacy so that when the PC gets their hands on it their persistance is paid off by the revealtion that the item they're carrying has a back story ala the one ring but not so evil centric but gives a reason why they hold onto it even if ultimately its because they prefer their character to be known for carrying that item perhaps turn it into a family heirloom from the viewpoint?