The Avengers (SPOILERS BEWARE0

[Desdichado]

No, I didn't. It's actually pretty well known fact. I'm surprised you don't know it, you being an 'industry insider' and all.

Logical leap there. I never claimed to be an industry insider. I claimed that... that other guy, whomever it was (Felon?) wasn't.

So let me sum up your argument: u dun no an i dun no so u rong an iym rite!!!11!! lolz usuxxorz!!!1!! iwinztehintarwebz!!!11111!!

Actually, I'm not very interested in arguing at all about whether or not Buffy was successful enough to be considered a "hit." Going down that road with obvious Whedon fanboys is tilting at windmills.

Really? After multiple warnings from admins and moderators about being polite, you want to dismissively call people fanboys? Bonus points for nerve, but you lose points for being insulting. Please don't repeat this. - Piratecat

Certainly I'll agree with the notion that of all the Whedon creations, Buffy is the only one until now that could possibly have qualified.

If your qualifications for "hit status" are kinda loose.

 

[Desdichado]

Except, Avengers have fought Magneto. X-Men have fought Doctor Doom. X-Men have fought Galactus. Avengers have fought Apocalypse. And so on, and so on.

A bit here and there. With 50 years of publication, I'd hope there'd be some crossover. And I specifically mentioned that yes, I'm aware of it.

It's still a pet peeve of mine that the X-men (and associated teams, villains and individuals) stand apart from the rest of the Marvel universe in many ways. I'd love to see them more tightly integrated; really feel like they're part of the same superhero community in the same setting--kinda like how the Avengers and the Fantastic Four have evolved over time. They're a long way from that.

 

[Kzach]

Logical leap there. I never claimed to be an industry insider. I claimed that... that other guy, whomever it was (Felon?) wasn't.

Actually, I'm not very interested in arguing at all about whether or not Buffy was successful enough to be considered a "hit." Going down that road with obvious Whedon fanboys is tilting at windmills.

Certainly I'll agree with the notion that of all the Whedon creations, Buffy is the only one until now that could possibly have qualified.

If your qualifications for "hit status" are kinda loose.

Do you even realise that you're arguing against yourself? Everything you say about other people's statements also applies to your statements, except that you don't seem to allow for this fact. Felon isn't an industry insider so his statements don't count, but you're not an industry insider and yet your statements are entirely valid.

Sorry. Does not compute.

And that's pretty much the entirety of your arguments. Everything anyone else says is garbage because they're not experts who can prove it, but what you say is 'teh trooth' despite the fact that you're not an expert and can't prove it.

 

[Felon]

With all of the different Marvel alien races to pick from, I'm surprised they went with one that was made up or doesn't have much history. Or maybe that was the idea, since they were just there to get beat up on.

Well, I'd say they wanted to have a race that had a good mix of opponents for the Avengers. Needed high-speed flying guys to fight Iron Man, needed some big heavy-hitters for Hulk and Thor to lay into, and lots of small fry for everybody else.

They probably didn't want a bunch of mechs and robots clomping around, because that's a little played out in the Bayesque era of films.

That remeinds me of the funniest thing that happened when I went to the midnight show. Wasn't even in the film. During the trailer for Battleship, the projector went out. Wild applause rose from the crowd. The joke was on us, though, since when the projector eventually went back online, we just had to watch it again.

 

[Felon]

SO, for the sequel, who (if anyone) should leave and who should go?

I personally would love to see The Vision. He's iconic for a large chunk of Avengers history, and is distinctive enough in powers, appearance, and overall concept that he would be a stand-out character. Problem is, to get it canonical, they first have to introduce Hank Pym and foreshadow Ultron. That's one film right there. Then the next film has to introduce both Ultron and Vision.

Wonder Man might be a more practical pick. He was the superhero who stopped wearing a costume long before it became fashionable.

Always liked the Wasp, because her powerset and fighting style is unique. She's kind of the superhero equivalent of a rogue, zipping in close and distracting the big bad so that one of the heavy-hitters can pick himself up and get in a good shot. It's one those archetypes that I don't really see in the superhero RPG's. Not a popular character, I know, but I'll take her over the Widow.

 

[Umbran]

I think the idea was, "let's pick an alien race that isn't cheesy."

I think it was more "let us continue with how most of the current movies are informed by the Marvel Ultimates line," as the Ultimates line establishes the Chitauri - beating the Chitauri is pretty much the first thing the "Ultimates" (the Avengers in the Ultimates line) do.

And the Ultimates Chitauri *do* shapeshift. It just isn't a major concern while they're invading.

I guess maybe Shi'ar could have qualified as not-cheesy, but then again, they've always been too associated with the X-men to turn up in an Avengers movie.

In standard Marvel continuity (such as it is) humans encounter first the Skrulls, then the Kree (and the Kree-Skrull War), and then the Shi'ar come around. While they are not forced to, there's something to be said for taking inspiration from that timeline.

Which is one of my pet peeves; the X-stuff and the Avengers/FF have always been pretty chimney-like, with hard walls between them.

I have to disagree that this is the case. While there are classic pairings of villains to hero groups, Marvel has by no means been siloed. Pick a major villain - he or she has probably fought every major hero group in the Marvel universe.

And to a great degree, so has Spiderman until very recent years (and I don't just mean putting him on the Avengers team; the whole Dark Avengers routine was another big step in the integration of Spiderman and his associated characters into the greater Marvel orbit.)

Ha! Really. Dude, Marvel Team-Up. They've been mixing Spidey into other lines for decades. Outside of the team-up line, he's had guest stars from lots of other lines in his books, and been a guest star frequently. If there's one poster child for marvel *not* being siloed, it is Spider Man.

 

[fanboy2000]

SO, for the sequel, who (if anyone) should leave and who should go?

I don't want any of them to leave, although historically Hulk wanders off and later becomes a defender much later.

In an ideal world, I'd love to see [strike]Frasier Crane[/strike] Beast in there. He could start off looking vaguely normal and then sprout blue fur during the course of the movie. There are a laundry list of reasons that's not going to happen though.

Vision's a good one. IMDB says there's an Ant-man movie in the works. If that happens, maybe we can get Ant-man and the Wasp in Avengers 2 (you know the marketing is going to call it A2) and maybe Vision in Avengers 3.

Also, I'm hoping for more Jarvis. The shot of the tower with just the "A" part of the "Stark" sign still up alluded to the idea of an Avenger's Mansion, or an Avenger's Tower. Admittedly, Jarvis isn't an Avenger, but I still like the idea. In all the movies with him, he's always been a useful AI without wandering into the various AI cliche or stereotypes.

 

[jonesy]

The most prevalent members have been Captain America, Iron Man, Vision, Scarlet Witch, Thor, Hawkeye, Wasp, Henry Pym, (and Jarvis).

The oldest regular members that aren't as often around are Quicksilver, Hercules, Black Panther, Black Widow, Wonder Man, Mantis, Ms. Marvel, and Falcon.

Then there's regulars who came about in the 80's: Tigra, She-Hulk, Captain Marvel, Starfox, and Namor.

I don't think most of those are tied up in movie legalities.


I think Starfox, She-Hulk and Hercules should have their own movie.

 

[Umbran]

SO, for the sequel, who (if anyone) should leave and who should go?

As they've written him so far, Hawkeye can go. He's just not that interesting.

I think, in these group-movies, the characters need to be established in other movies in order to work out. They don't need to have their own film, but I don't think there's much time in the group movie to start from the ground up.

 

[Relique du Madde]

Dude, seriously? Have you even started with Wikipedia? Or Google? This isn't exactly something that requires "keen industry insider" perspective; it's pretty common knowledge.

You just made all that up. I have no idea what the sales were like, and most importantly, I have no idea what the costs where like, so whether or not that managed to pique some business-man's interest at the studio is all complete conjecture.

But I'm going with not. Especially relative to the alternatives. Y'know; actual hit shows.

I think the idea was, "let's pick an alien race that isn't cheesy."

I guess maybe Shi'ar could have qualified as not-cheesy, but then again, they've always been too associated with the X-men to turn up in an Avengers movie.

Which is one of my pet peeves; the X-stuff and the Avengers/FF have always been pretty chimney-like, with hard walls between them. I mean, yeah--Beast, Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver and lately even Wolverine have all been Avengers in the past, but curiously that doesn't really lead to closer ties between the two continuities within a continuity. Same for the crossover events. How come the Avengers never fight Magneto? Why don't the X-men take exception to Doctor Doom. Don't the X-men think that the threat posed by someone like Galactus is important enough? Don't the Avengers think the same about Apocalypse? And so on, and so on.

FF and Avengers have become fairly tightly integrated to the point where it's often easy to forget that some of the most classic villains in the entire Marvel universe are FF villains originally. The X-men continue to stand apart. And to a great degree, so has Spiderman until very recent years (and I don't just mean putting him on the Avengers team; the whole Dark Avengers routine was another big step in the integration of Spiderman and his associated characters into the greater Marvel orbit.)

Anyway, you could make a case that both the look and the name (and the MO) of the skrulls are all kinda cheesy, so I can see why the producers would want to shy away from them.

Actually they have problem is everytime the Avengers get mixed up in mutant affairs X-Men and their fans decry racism.

Much of the last 5 years of XMen stories has been a result of a XMen/Avengers crossover (House of M and DeciMation) and the current Marvel event is Avengers vs XMen. The AvX is pretty much is about the pheonix coming to earth and the majority of the XMen acting as cultists due to their belief that the pheonix will make every depowered mutant become repowered.... nevermind the fact that the pheonix has been destroying planets left and right on the way to earth. Meanwhile the Avengers are rightfully paranoid since they know planets have been destroyed and they decide to raid all XMen's bases in an attempt to capture (or in Wolverine's case) kill the mutant messiah who might actually be the mutant anti-christ. Now what is confusing is that they are trying to say that the Pheonix is like the force that gives the Iron Fists their powers... So yeah... even though their histories have been mingling right now they are being fully integrated.

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