The Avengers (SPOILERS BEWARE0

[Mouseferatu]

So, the big question people are asking is if there's any justification for Hulk's sudden surge of team spirit. Sure, he sucker-punches Thor, but he saves Iron Man. That's a big change of heart from almost going Ike Turner on Black Widow.

Remember that Hulk isn't completely mindless/bestial. He's capable of making decisions and recognizing allies--or at least, common threats.

In the Black Widow scene, he changed involuntarily and--this is important--while everyone was still under Loki's influence. Every character was being more vicious/violent than usual at that point.

In the later scene, Banner changes deliberately, he's had a reminder that Hulk can be at least partly controlled (he "aimed" at an old, abandoned building when falling), and there's a clear and present common threat.

 

[Umbran]

At the time, it wasn't guarded by Thor. With the Bifrost broken, Asgard was cut off from other realms by conventional means. We still don't know exactly how Thor made the trip, but Loki suggests it must have taken all of Odin's power to accomplish.

I believe he says, "I wonder how much dark energy the Allfather had to expend to get you here." So, not only did he know that Thor could show up, but he knew how. Loki is many things, but stupid is not one of them. I think having Thor show up was part of the plan all along.

Plus, the Tesseract is on Earth, and tha t's the price of admission for Loki's army. Since he has to go there anyway...

If he weren't going up against the Avengers, he wouldn't need the army, would he? Loki, with is powers of illusion and mastery of subterfuge, could take over any government he choses from within. Force is a blunt instrument, and not Loki's strong suit.

I could take a No-Prize argument - Loki falls through the void, ends up in the hands of the Skrulls, and this is the one way he figures out to save his hide.

Plus, the Asgardians have been there before, and they were treated as gods by the Norsemen they befriended.

And the most beloved of the Asgardians among Earthmen? Thor!

Loki truly does believe that if he walks back in and makes a show of strength, humanity will bow down just as their ancestors did a few centuries ago.

Yes, 'cause he's kind of arrogant. I merely argue that this isn't *why* he does it.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Remember that Hulk isn't completely mindless/bestial. He's capable of making decisions and recognizing allies--or at least, common threats.

In the Black Widow scene, he changed involuntarily and--this is important--while everyone was still under Loki's influence. Every character was being more vicious/violent than usual at that point.

In the later scene, Banner changes deliberately, he's had a reminder that Hulk can be at least partly controlled (he "aimed" at an old, abandoned building when falling), and there's a clear and present common threat.

lets not forget Hulk had always shown knowladge of how banner was treated, not only does stark like banner, but he likes and respects hulk... even saying for him to suit up(aka hulk out). I think hulk dislikeing the spys (distrustful), and seeing thor as a target (or at least a fun plaything) would respect cap for his treatment of banner and his eagerness to give both he and hulk a break, and stark for opening going to bat for hulk.

 

[Relique du Madde]

Well, yeah, but why does he think that? He was raised as brother to Thor, who is? Heir to Asgard!

They've made it super-clear in Thor and Avengers that there's an entire universe of worlds out there. He could make a try for any of them. Dare we say that one that isn't guarded by Thor would be just a tad easier? But he goes after Earth anyway?

He wanted to piss on everything Thor wants / cares about. What better way then enslave the people Thor chose to become a protector of, murder a bunch of them, destroy a major city, then eventually find his mortal GF and stuff her into a fridge. Thor is lucky he didn't buy a dog while in New Mexico since if Loki would have punted that dog across an interstate during rush hour traffic.

 

[MarkB]

If he weren't going up against the Avengers, he wouldn't need the army, would he? Loki, with is powers of illusion and mastery of subterfuge, could take over any government he choses from within. Force is a blunt instrument, and not Loki's strong suit.

The Avengers didn't even exist when Loki arrived - they were an abandoned initiative. Even when they do show up, he deals with them using those aforementioned powers of illusion and subterfuge, and leaves the helicarrier believing that he has definitely shattered the group's cohesion and probably killed one or more of them.

Despite all this, he still sets out to import an army onto Earth and take it over by force - so clearly their job wasn't to deal with the Avengers.

My impression is that Loki didn't want to conquer by subterfuge, to lead from the shadows, despite that being what he's good at. What he wanted was to subjugate a planet by force of arms and become its acknowledged ruler. And from his viewpoint, Earth was a perfectly good candidate for that plan.

 

[Umbran]

My impression is that Loki didn't want to conquer by subterfuge, to lead from the shadows, despite that being what he's good at. What he wanted was to subjugate a planet by force of arms and become its acknowledged ruler. And from his viewpoint, Earth was a perfectly good candidate for that plan.

I think you're rather making my point for me.

He doesn't have to lead from the shadows forever - just until his power is secured. Earth is a "perfectly good" candidate for the brute force plan *except* for that pesky little bit about Thor loving it. Brother dear has always been in Loki's way, remember. There's no way Loki's taking on Earth without Thor showing up.

So, riddle me this: why does a genius-intelligence (I'll grant Loki that) take on a planet using something other than the approach he's personally best suited for?

Remember this is going back to the OP's, "his whole reasoing is because we humans are made to be subjugated?" He does tell himself that humans are natural followers (though, there's probably some argument there this is wishful thinking and rationalization on his part - it is what he wants to believe). I'm just saying that is not his *whole* reasoning, by a long shot.

 

[megamania]

Its been 48 hours since watching it and the kids abnd I are still laughing and replaying the scenes. So many good lines and scenes.

The favorite it appears is the Loki / Hulk scene.

"What can you do to me? I am a god"

After Hulk swatting some imaginary flys (using Loki)- the look on Loki's face is ABSOLUTELY priceless. I want it as a screen saver.

It went much as expected-

Best lines- Iron Man
Sentimental scene- Thor ( though the "adopted" line is priceless
Wow scene- Hawkeye
Movie stealer- Hulk
How did... you TRICKED me scene- Black Widow

The weakest character which I think was more about the focus on the SUPER heroes was Fury. His moments to shine were not as good as the others but still very Fury. The whole Coulson / cards spin was excellent. Cap was semi weak but its hard to portray strength of conviction and high moral standards in a movie like this. And push comes to shove- he held his own against Thor.

 

[Felon]

The favorite it appears is the Loki / Hulk scene.

"What can you do to me? I am a god"

After Hulk swatting some imaginary flys (using Loki)- the look on Loki's face is ABSOLUTELY priceless. I want it as a screen saver.

Yeah, it was geat. I would have liked it better if instead of empty bluster, Loki was actually blasting Hulk, making the auidence think for a moment that he was turning the tables back in his favor. THEN he gets abruptly smashed.

 

[Felon]

Remember that Hulk isn't completely mindless/bestial. He's capable of making decisions and recognizing allies--or at least, common threats.

In the Black Widow scene, he changed involuntarily and--this is important--while everyone was still under Loki's influence. Every character was being more vicious/violent than usual at that point.

The Hulk's level of intelligence has always been variable. In the previous films, he was little more than a raging animal, and that's kind of how he acted on the helicarrier. It's one of those unfortunate barriers directors seem to have with Hulk. They think it's campy for him to be able to speak like he does in the comics.

How was Loki influencing everyone? He doesn't (apparently) cast spells in this incarnation.

 

[Felon]

Oh, can somebody explain to me what's the difference between seeing Avengers in Imax 3D and seeing Avengers in "Imax: a 3D Experience"?