5E The Bard: College of Lore or Valor?

Mistwell

Hero
taking goodberry and aura of vitality otherwise take probably bless at level 6 and a level 3 spell of your choice. 2 levels of warlock boosts the bards damage via eldritch blast. The lore bard is not that good of a healer unless you MC or start stealing cleric spells like prayer of healing and aura of vitality.
Why Aura of Vitality? Just for the ranged healing?
 

Zardnaar

Hero
Why Aura of Vitality? Just for the ranged healing?
Because of the way it interacts with the life clerics disciple of life ability. A life cleric 1/Lore bard6+ can get Paladin and Druidic spells. Aura of Vitality heals 2d6 over 10 rounds or an average of 70 points of damage. It compares well to heal in that regard.

A life cleric casting it however heals 2d6+5 per round instead of 2d6 and that is an average of 120 healing out of a 3rd level spell while goodberry heals 40 hit points per spell. You will have that much healing available you can use most of your spells on other stuff.

If you don't want to heal or have another healer in the party the healing feat is also great for most of the same reasons. Just depends on how much healing is expected form your lore bard but they are not really very good at it despite having healing word and cure spells on their list as they lack prayer of healing and mass healing word on their spell list.

Bless and fireball at level 6 are also two good spells to take and more or less covers the buff and blast part of a bard almost by themselves. Bless is better than Faerie Fire which is also a good bard spell to take.
 

Mistwell

Hero
Because of the way it interacts with the life clerics disciple of life ability. A life cleric 1/Lore bard6+ can get Paladin and Druidic spells. Aura of Vitality heals 2d6 over 10 rounds or an average of 70 points of damage. It compares well to heal in that regard.

A life cleric casting it however heals 2d6+5 per round instead of 2d6 and that is an average of 120 healing out of a 3rd level spell while goodberry heals 40 hit points per spell. You will have that much healing available you can use most of your spells on other stuff.

If you don't want to heal or have another healer in the party the healing feat is also great for most of the same reasons. Just depends on how much healing is expected form your lore bard but they are not really very good at it despite having healing word and cure spells on their list as they lack prayer of healing and mass healing word on their spell list.

Bless and fireball at level 6 are also two good spells to take and more or less covers the buff and blast part of a bard almost by themselves. Bless is better than Faerie Fire which is also a good bard spell to take.
I am thinking Life Cleric 1 / Lore Bard X. But the only question I have is that healing you mentioned all seems out of combat - where hit dice and other healing can help. How are they for in-combat healing, to save lives?
 

Zardnaar

Hero
I am thinking Life Cleric 1 / Lore Bard X. But the only question I have is that healing you mentioned all seems out of combat - where hit dice and other healing can help. How are they for in-combat healing, to save lives?
Depends they have access to healing word which can keep people alive but even clerics are not that good at healing in combat. Mass healing word form a life cleric is nice but kind of average from a normal cleric. In combat healing in 5E is kinda weak in general.

My players normally focus on damage mitigation than in combat healing. Stoneskin, bard dice, disadvantage for NPCs hitting, temporary hit points things like that. In combat healing we use the most is probably healing word. Generally they always have 2 healers.

Cleric counts as 1 healer
Life cleric counts as 1.5 healers
Druid and Bard counts as .75 healer
Paladin counts as .5 healer
Healing feat counts as 1 healer.
Druid/cleric and Bard/Cleric counts as 1.5 or 2 healers YMMV.

That is only a rough approximation. The life cleric is really the only good in combat healing class in the game. That is because the incoming damage usually exceeds what healing spells can do hence why they focus on out of combat healing. This starts at low CR critters like Orcs, Hobgoblins, Ogres, Bugbears or Kobold swarms and continues through to CR 5 with things like gladiators and hill giants.

One trick they have used is the healer feat which you can use as a bonus action via the thief. Each time they get KOed they get healed to 1 hp and then after the fight they heal up. At low levels the healer feat out performs even a life cleric and by level 9 it is equivalent to a mass cure spell per short rest. One of them is a bladelock and she farms more hit points via temp hit points (fiend pact) and deals more damage than the fighters/paladins due to hex.

Damage mitigation via cutting words, flare, portend is also very good. Stoneskin is great as well along with stoneskin+heavy armor master and one can use armor of agthys for even more fun and games. 5E has made some defensive abilities worth using.
 
Okay, it all depends on what you're looking for. If you happen to roll good stats, DEFINITELY go Lore. Since you'll presumably be sticking to DEX, the Bard's basic Rapier proficiency (highest damage of any melee finesse weapon) should be more than enough for you. If instead you want just the all-out kill everything, go Valor.
Personally, the Bonus Proficiencies of both classes aren't that useful to me. You're a bard, so you're a skill monkey (thus not needing Lore profs.) and you've got Rapier (thus not needing Valor profs.) If you like extra attacks and being an amazing fighter and caster, Valor, if you want best caster in the game, Lore.
 

mellored

Explorer
The main decision is cutting words vs armor.

Valor will kinda suck at weapons, except for swift quiver or multi-classing, possibly both. But having 3-5 more AC is still pretty nice no matter what you are casting. They also work well with shield master and grappling. And the bonus attack is nice even with 14 dex and a sling.

Of course lore can take a level of cleric for armor and pick up some nice stuff. Which is probably the most optimal route.
 

UngeheuerLich

Adventurer
define suck...

Top tier? No, but attacking twice and using spells seems fair. You are a .75 caster after all...

.75 because full casters have spell recovery abilities.
 

mellored

Explorer
define suck...

Top tier? No, but attacking twice and using spells seems fair. You are a .75 caster after all...
Which puts valor's weapon attacks on par with firebolt. About 1/2 of a real weapon user. Maybe a bit higher if you invest in attack stat depending on the level.
Which is fair, yes. But not good.

Though, if you use self buff (haste, swift quiver) possibly dip for a fighting style, you can make a nice hybrid. At least as long as your slots last.

.75 because full casters have spell recovery abilities.
Inspiration dice are effectively your recharging spell slots. Sort of like bless or shield.
 

UngeheuerLich

Adventurer
Yes. You bring other abilities to the table. Inspiration on your teammates may add a lot of damage. Your expertise and extra healing on short rests also help. You will pull your own weight. Your damage is ok if you focus on thag stat. You are in the same spot as the bladesinger. You are diversifying at the cost of raw power.
 

Esker

Explorer
The post above is clearly a thinly veiled spam ad for a plagiarism site. Reported.

Edit: The offending post has been removed.
 
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The lore bard performs very well. I recommend him over the valor bard. Ac and a slightly better attack is just not worth it IMO.
 

Fenris-77

Explorer
I like the Lore Bard a lot more. One, he feels more Bard-y to me from a fluff perspective (so, whatevs, ymmv) but I like the role of the Lore Bard as a skill monkey, party face, and buff master. The Valor Bard isn't good enough at combat for me to want to trade in all the Lore goodies, especially Magical Secrets. The College of Swords from XGE would be my pick if you wanted a fighty Bard, although I like Lore better than either.
 

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