D&D 5E The Bard: College of Lore or Valor?

AmpsterMan · Sep 14, 2014

I'd be giving up my 10th level spell then, no? Alas, I don't even have anyone to play this game with xD. I am just doing this for my own amusement tbh.

Llokii · Mar 2, 2015

Weave said:
If your going for standard stat allocation mine will look like this for a half elf bard. I will be sticking to finesse weapons obviously.

Str:8
Con:12
Dex:15
Int:14
Wis:10
Cha:17

Just flip the dex and cha if you go valor. I dont know if I would take any feats for my lore bard. I may consider spell sniper to pick up Eldritch Blast, letting me pick up something else when I hit the level 6 lore feature, but to be honest achieving +4 cha and +3 dex is a higher priority for me. If you are a more perceptive, investigative bard rather than a brainy knowledge bard you can flip the int and wis. Strength is ignored because only one skill depends on it and can often be a combined skill check.

This is a horrible allocation. With Half-elf, your stats should be (using standard array)

Str: 8
Dex: 15 (+1) = 16
Con: 13 (+1) = 14
Int: 10
Wis: 12
Char: 14 (+2) = 16

Having scores at 15 and 17 as your 2 main stats is a waste. You don't get any bonus until the even number (16 and 18). Starting both at 16 gives you better starting Dex and doesn't reduce your bonuses from Cha. Also, why int so high? It literally does nothing for you outside of skills. Con should be higher for Concentration checks.

Also, I believe Perception is Wisdom and Investigation is Int.

At level 4 when you get your stat boost, you can put 2 into Cha to make it 18, but this will be better for the first few levels than the original split out.

DMCF · Mar 4, 2015

Lore with a splash of rogue, paladin, cleric, and even fighter for an action surge is amazing.

Valor not so much. You'll never be a front line fighter but you get some great control and healing. Better for archer heavy groups with a tank if you want to mix things up imo.

Lore also has such great RP value with all the skills. That's why I chose it even though Im playing HotDQ with a group that prefers to hack through its challenges than use any kind of finesse.

Minsc · Mar 6, 2015

I was trying to build a character that could cover a lot of party roles.

I came up with a Bard (College of Lore) who dips one level into Cleric (Life). You get better healing, you get Heavy Armor (if you want it), and simple weapons (be an elf or dwarf if you want more weapons). Lots of skills too.

I haven't actually played this character. I hope he's a fun and versatile as I'm thinking he will be.

Vymair · Mar 6, 2015

Both sub-types appeal to me, so I think it depends on what I want to do from a role-play and party mix perspective.

My Bard is a Skald from the North, so he's a valour bard wielding a Great Sword. His spells are focused on healing and utility effects for the most part since he's not buffing or casting spells for damage. He's more of a support healer with some decent melee damage. He also has a few ritual spells so that he can provide some out-of-combat utility and of course enhance ability for social situations.

The bards in the other camaigns I'm in have been Lore Bards and they are certainly quite effective as well, but tend to focus more on the crowd control spells where my guy just busts out the Great sword and wades into the fight.

Zardnaar · Mar 7, 2015

Valor bard is a bit MAD if you plan on using medium armor. If you roll stats and get a lot of 14+ the class is a lot better. The valor bard stinks at damage even with that extra attack at level 5 as it gets no spells that add to damage like hex, no fighting style, and doesn't get to steal any spells until level 10 and it kind of needs the warcaster feat. It can be a good buffer with the shield master feat as it an use expertise on athletics. Without better scores than the default start as a fighter and multiclass in the valor bard at level 2. If you want a dex based valor bard you do noot get a lot of stat buffs to use on dex and cha and you want both. And now you are a dex based melee combatant with meh scores , meh damage and not doing much of anything. dex based ranged valor bard is a bit better but you lack feats to make the archer good or if you get the feats your dex is going to be lacking and you will stink at being an archer compared with fighter/ranger and there is not much until level 10 to make you any better at archery.

The fighter level gives you proficiency in con saves, heavy armor, a fighting style and reduces MAD so fixes most of the problems the valor bard has. Lore bard has less MAD (cha/dex with tertiary in con) and can usually hide behind people and failing that can still has a d8 hit dice and can steal spells form other classes at level 6 to help out in that regard.

Mistwell · Mar 7, 2015

Zardnaar said:
Valor bard is a bit MAD if you plan on using medium armor. If you roll stats and get a lot of 14+ the class is a lot better. The valor bard stinks at damage even with that extra attack at level 5 as it gets no spells that add to damage like hex, no fighting style, and doesn't get to steal any spells until level 10 and it kind of needs the warcaster feat. It can be a good buffer with the shield master feat as it an use expertise on athletics. Without better scores than the default start as a fighter and multiclass in the valor bard at level 2. If you want a dex based valor bard you do noot get a lot of stat buffs to use on dex and cha and you want both. And now you are a dex based melee combatant with meh scores , meh damage and not doing much of anything. dex based ranged valor bard is a bit better but you lack feats to make the archer good or if you get the feats your dex is going to be lacking and you will stink at being an archer compared with fighter/ranger and there is not much until level 10 to make you any better at archery.

The fighter level gives you proficiency in con saves, heavy armor, a fighting style and reduces MAD so fixes most of the problems the valor bard has. Lore bard has less MAD (cha/dex with tertiary in con) and can usually hide behind people and failing that can still has a d8 hit dice and can steal spells form other classes at level 6 to help out in that regard.

I would love to see your sample Lore Bard build. Either straight-up, or with some multi-classing. I am thinking of playing a Bard in an upcoming Horde of the Dragon Queen campaign.

Zardnaar · Mar 7, 2015

Minsc said:
I was trying to build a character that could cover a lot of party roles.

I came up with a Bard (College of Lore) who dips one level into Cleric (Life). You get better healing, you get Heavy Armor (if you want it), and simple weapons (be an elf or dwarf if you want more weapons). Lots of skills too.

I haven't actually played this character. I hope he's a fun and versatile as I'm thinking he will be.

Take goodberry and the level 3 pladin spell aura of vitality at level 6 lore bard.Best healer ever.

Zardnaar · Mar 7, 2015

Mistwell said:
I would love to see your sample Lore Bard build. Either straight-up, or with some multi-classing. I am thinking of playing a Bard in an upcoming Horde of the Dragon Queen campaign.

My player got hers to level 12 or 13. I got my valor bard to 13 and the class has problems around MAD and not actually being good at combat.

I don't think tyou can go to far wrong building a lore bard just focus on something (support, buffing, debuff, healing, blasting). Don't try and do everything at once. The MC lore bard combos I have seen that I liked are the healer one (life cleric1, bard6+) taking goodberry and aura of vitality otherwise take probably bless at level 6 and a level 3 spell of your choice. 2 levels of warlock boosts the bards damage via eldritch blast. The lore bard is not that good of a healer unless you MC or start stealing cleric spells like prayer of healing and aura of vitality.

Lore bard is ch cha and cha, try for a 14 dex/con or 14 con/16 dex and cha as half elf. Or take a punt roll some dice and try out something like a Dwarf lore bard if you can roll a 16-8. Good feats to take are healer, warcaster and resilient:con otherwise just buff charisma all the time and get 20 cha by level 8 or 12 and 1-2 feats depending on race.

Healer is an MVP feat for any spellcaster really but it helps even more if you are a class that may be expected to carry some of the healing load. If you plan on buffing warcaster is always good, a cleric level dip can get you heavy armor and a fighter level is almost as good for you as it is for the valor bard assuming you start as a fighter.