Eye Tyrant
First Post
Sorry, it is a good thread, but since I didn't have anything constructive to contribute I thought I would try and be funny...
The Bible--Wars, Culture, Faith, and Inspiration
- Thread starter SHARK
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Don
First Post
A friend and I half-designed a Christianesque campaign setting. It sports a creator God along with prophecies of a Messiah (I guess that would make it an Old Testament setting).
Existence was divvied up into seven planes (more or less):
Heaven - Where God and his various species of angels (celestials) live. No one gets in here without persmission.
Paradise - Where people who are justified by faith in God and the future Messiah go when they die. Angels enter here, and it's possible for mortal to get to the outer gate, but not to come in. Once the Messiah visits this plane, the mortals who died and live here can have access to Heaven.
Universe - Akin to the Prime Material plane, which is made up of a physical side and a spiritual side (akin to the astral plane). The spiritual and physical sides exist as one plane. Mortals have physical bodies, yet they have souls that exist in the spiritual plane. Unfortunately, most mortals don't realize that since they focus so much on what their physical senses tell them. This is the domain of mortals. Angels and Demons have access here (as physical beings in the physical aspect of the universe, or spiritual beings in the spiritual aspect of the universe).
Hades - Where people who reject the gift of righteousness offered by God (whether purposefully or thru indifference). Demons may roam around here, if they wish. When mortals are here, they are as though living without ability to die, but experience decay (when you get hurt, you stay hurt forever.). Many mortals have set up kingdoms here and there's a lot of vicious power struggles going on (there are vast fields where hacked up people - members of armies fighting in this realm - lie moaning and wailing, unable to move, never dying...). It is whispered that the promised Messiah of the Universal plane will also descend here to try and redeem some repentant people that were previously lost due to ignorance.
Tartarus - The prison plane for demons. Some demons are allowed to roam, while others are chained up in here until Judgement Day. No mortals allowed.
Gehenna - The plane of neverending destruction. Complete and utter torment and eternal death are experienced here. It is currently emptied (to be filled with those who rejected God's forgiveness and for demons, ie. angels who rebelled agains God). Nothing that enters here ever leaves. Nothing.
Abyss - A void of nothingness. This is where many demons exist in a wild pandemonium (basically a holding chamber for them). Anyone can enter, but you must have special persmission from the angel who guards the entrance to leave.
Each of these "planes" are mentioned in the Bible, but there's a lot of contention about some of them (for example, some believe Paradise and Heaven are the same). We simply decided on this arrangement because it gave us a more interesting planescape and resulted in the pleasingly perfect number of planes: 7.
Since angels/demons are eternal beings, they could not be killed. When defeated, angels would be sent back to heaven, and demons would be locked into the void. There's no "home plane" for demons, since they were once angels who rebelled and were kicked out of heaven. They can only roam the other planes until Judgment Day. Since no demon wants to end up in the void, you can imagine they would be very tenacious and crafty.
Players could adventure in Hades for some horrific adventures if they so wished. (An adventure with no healing. What fun!)
We did decide on making a main civilization that was akin to the Hebrews, albeit more powerful (one of the two most powerful beings in the world).
The various intelligent races were created in the beginning as separate races, and The Fall of Mortals occurred much later (after beautiful cities were created). Much of what existed before The Fall is gone, but legends speak of the existence of these fantastic cities...
Some creatures (goblins, orcs, etc.) came into being only after The Fall. These creatures are irredeemably evil and have no capacity for good. They have no spiritual aspects to their existence, so their lives end when they physically die.
99% of demons reside in the spiritual half of the Universe. They set themselves up as gods, empowering those who follow them. They spend most of their time influencing mortals to be indifferent towards goodness (or to be outright evil) out of spite for their Creator.
Magic is interwoven into the fabric of the Universe. Spells don't work in the other planes, but magical power may be gifted to beings on a special basis in these planes by God.
We created a new domain for followers of the one true God. The domain gave special abilities to dispel magic of any cleric who follows a false god.
We spent a lot of time on the rudimentary stuff for the setting (including planetary rotation, moons, continents, trade winds, etc), but we got bogged down when we got to the designing the different cultures on the planet. Perhaps we'll finish it someday and publish it on the web.
Existence was divvied up into seven planes (more or less):
Heaven - Where God and his various species of angels (celestials) live. No one gets in here without persmission.
Paradise - Where people who are justified by faith in God and the future Messiah go when they die. Angels enter here, and it's possible for mortal to get to the outer gate, but not to come in. Once the Messiah visits this plane, the mortals who died and live here can have access to Heaven.
Universe - Akin to the Prime Material plane, which is made up of a physical side and a spiritual side (akin to the astral plane). The spiritual and physical sides exist as one plane. Mortals have physical bodies, yet they have souls that exist in the spiritual plane. Unfortunately, most mortals don't realize that since they focus so much on what their physical senses tell them. This is the domain of mortals. Angels and Demons have access here (as physical beings in the physical aspect of the universe, or spiritual beings in the spiritual aspect of the universe).
Hades - Where people who reject the gift of righteousness offered by God (whether purposefully or thru indifference). Demons may roam around here, if they wish. When mortals are here, they are as though living without ability to die, but experience decay (when you get hurt, you stay hurt forever.). Many mortals have set up kingdoms here and there's a lot of vicious power struggles going on (there are vast fields where hacked up people - members of armies fighting in this realm - lie moaning and wailing, unable to move, never dying...). It is whispered that the promised Messiah of the Universal plane will also descend here to try and redeem some repentant people that were previously lost due to ignorance.
Tartarus - The prison plane for demons. Some demons are allowed to roam, while others are chained up in here until Judgement Day. No mortals allowed.
Gehenna - The plane of neverending destruction. Complete and utter torment and eternal death are experienced here. It is currently emptied (to be filled with those who rejected God's forgiveness and for demons, ie. angels who rebelled agains God). Nothing that enters here ever leaves. Nothing.
Abyss - A void of nothingness. This is where many demons exist in a wild pandemonium (basically a holding chamber for them). Anyone can enter, but you must have special persmission from the angel who guards the entrance to leave.
Each of these "planes" are mentioned in the Bible, but there's a lot of contention about some of them (for example, some believe Paradise and Heaven are the same). We simply decided on this arrangement because it gave us a more interesting planescape and resulted in the pleasingly perfect number of planes: 7.
Since angels/demons are eternal beings, they could not be killed. When defeated, angels would be sent back to heaven, and demons would be locked into the void. There's no "home plane" for demons, since they were once angels who rebelled and were kicked out of heaven. They can only roam the other planes until Judgment Day. Since no demon wants to end up in the void, you can imagine they would be very tenacious and crafty.
Players could adventure in Hades for some horrific adventures if they so wished. (An adventure with no healing. What fun!)
We did decide on making a main civilization that was akin to the Hebrews, albeit more powerful (one of the two most powerful beings in the world).
The various intelligent races were created in the beginning as separate races, and The Fall of Mortals occurred much later (after beautiful cities were created). Much of what existed before The Fall is gone, but legends speak of the existence of these fantastic cities...
Some creatures (goblins, orcs, etc.) came into being only after The Fall. These creatures are irredeemably evil and have no capacity for good. They have no spiritual aspects to their existence, so their lives end when they physically die.
99% of demons reside in the spiritual half of the Universe. They set themselves up as gods, empowering those who follow them. They spend most of their time influencing mortals to be indifferent towards goodness (or to be outright evil) out of spite for their Creator.
Magic is interwoven into the fabric of the Universe. Spells don't work in the other planes, but magical power may be gifted to beings on a special basis in these planes by God.
We created a new domain for followers of the one true God. The domain gave special abilities to dispel magic of any cleric who follows a false god.
We spent a lot of time on the rudimentary stuff for the setting (including planetary rotation, moons, continents, trade winds, etc), but we got bogged down when we got to the designing the different cultures on the planet. Perhaps we'll finish it someday and publish it on the web.
DnDChick
Demon Queen of Templates
CrusaderX said:
Oh no, not another misrepresentation of Leviticus. I sincerely hope I missed the sarcasm in this statement!
I may be misinterpreting things, but Im no theologan. If you want to discuss my statement with me, email me. This thread isnt really the place for religious debate.
CrusaderX
First Post
I agree that this isn't the place for religious debate, DnDChick. And I was just about to email you, but I can't seem to find an email link attatched to your name.
Anyway, it's no big deal. In a nutshell, though, Leviticus is a book of laws and rituals that applied to the tribe of Levi. And since I think I can safely assume that you're not a member of that tribe, the pizza-eating example wouldn't apply here.
Leviticus is widely misinterpreted, both by Christians and non-Christians alike. But, as you've said, deeper discussions should be taken to email, so I'll stop here.
Anyway, it's no big deal. In a nutshell, though, Leviticus is a book of laws and rituals that applied to the tribe of Levi. And since I think I can safely assume that you're not a member of that tribe, the pizza-eating example wouldn't apply here.
Leviticus is widely misinterpreted, both by Christians and non-Christians alike. But, as you've said, deeper discussions should be taken to email, so I'll stop here.
barsoomcore
Unattainable Ideal
I don't think I've ever used much of the Bible for inspiration -- beyond what being a member of Western society makes implicit.
Not that it isn't good material, of course. And I have an ancient king in my campaign modelled loosely on Solomon, with a wife like Bathsheeba. And she turns out to be sort of the one who actually recorded everything -- has anyone read Harold Bloom's The Book of J? Very interesting.
But I've used more material from other religious traditions -- the Bagavad Gita, the Analects, the Tao Te Ching, the Mabinogion and Gilgamesh. There's good material everywhere.
Not that it isn't good material, of course. And I have an ancient king in my campaign modelled loosely on Solomon, with a wife like Bathsheeba. And she turns out to be sort of the one who actually recorded everything -- has anyone read Harold Bloom's The Book of J? Very interesting.
But I've used more material from other religious traditions -- the Bagavad Gita, the Analects, the Tao Te Ching, the Mabinogion and Gilgamesh. There's good material everywhere.
On a slight tangent, I think that the English Protestant Reformation under the Tudors and the Cathar and Albegensian heresies are interesting. I have twisted them around a bit and combined them into an area in the campaign world I am working on.
There are two kingdoms that have had a close and tenous relationship throughout history, Bressia and Doria. It was a king's bastard son, half Bressian and half Dorian, who united the two kingdoms through murder, political machinations, and a civil war, and established the Bressian monotheistic Nomitic faith as the official religion of the kingdom in return for the Bressian nobles' support in the civil war. His son then led a tremendously successful military campaign and created the Dorian Empire. He was not to reap the glory of his own devising, however, as an uprising ended his reign, one of the primary causes of which was the instatement of the Nomitic faith as the official religion. The Hathor dynasty, of pure Dorian blood, took power and reversed the Writ of Nomos, destroying the official status of the Church of Nomos but leaving it's following and heirarchy intact in order to prevent a breakup of the kingdom. The Hathor dynasty was the golden age of the Dorian Empire (which is still the greatest power the world has ever seen), and ruled over a flowering of economic, artistic, military, and philosophical progress.
Centuries later (under a different dynasty), long after Bressia and other territories had secceeded from the empire, which had by now shrunk a tremendous deal and lost a lot of power, Bressia led an invasion of the empire and replaced the emperor with a new line of pureblooded Bressian kings. The Dorians have suffered under foreign rule for 82 years now (although the empire is still called the Dorian Empire), and once again the Nomitic Church is the only officially sanctioned faith in the Dorian Empire. This time, however, it has spread quickly and taken firm root among the Dorians.
The old polytheistic Dorian faith is usually tolerated (but is highly disapproved of and quickly losing popularity), but Nomitic Heresies are stamped out brutally. Most prominent among these at this time is the Soreanist sect, more gnostic in spirit, whose members are being rooted out and executed by the Emperor's soldiers. The Soreanists would gladly support reinstatement of a line of Dorian Emperors and expulsion of the foreign dynasty, as would many proud, native, Dorians.
The crusades are also very inspiring, from many different angles and perspectives, but I'm not planning to cannibalize anything from them.
There are two kingdoms that have had a close and tenous relationship throughout history, Bressia and Doria. It was a king's bastard son, half Bressian and half Dorian, who united the two kingdoms through murder, political machinations, and a civil war, and established the Bressian monotheistic Nomitic faith as the official religion of the kingdom in return for the Bressian nobles' support in the civil war. His son then led a tremendously successful military campaign and created the Dorian Empire. He was not to reap the glory of his own devising, however, as an uprising ended his reign, one of the primary causes of which was the instatement of the Nomitic faith as the official religion. The Hathor dynasty, of pure Dorian blood, took power and reversed the Writ of Nomos, destroying the official status of the Church of Nomos but leaving it's following and heirarchy intact in order to prevent a breakup of the kingdom. The Hathor dynasty was the golden age of the Dorian Empire (which is still the greatest power the world has ever seen), and ruled over a flowering of economic, artistic, military, and philosophical progress.
Centuries later (under a different dynasty), long after Bressia and other territories had secceeded from the empire, which had by now shrunk a tremendous deal and lost a lot of power, Bressia led an invasion of the empire and replaced the emperor with a new line of pureblooded Bressian kings. The Dorians have suffered under foreign rule for 82 years now (although the empire is still called the Dorian Empire), and once again the Nomitic Church is the only officially sanctioned faith in the Dorian Empire. This time, however, it has spread quickly and taken firm root among the Dorians.
The old polytheistic Dorian faith is usually tolerated (but is highly disapproved of and quickly losing popularity), but Nomitic Heresies are stamped out brutally. Most prominent among these at this time is the Soreanist sect, more gnostic in spirit, whose members are being rooted out and executed by the Emperor's soldiers. The Soreanists would gladly support reinstatement of a line of Dorian Emperors and expulsion of the foreign dynasty, as would many proud, native, Dorians.
The crusades are also very inspiring, from many different angles and perspectives, but I'm not planning to cannibalize anything from them.
Last edited:
DnDChick
Demon Queen of Templates
Hey Kenjib...sounds like you would make some use out of the new Mongoose book due out in March, Crusades of Valour. Its about running "crusade" style campaigns in a fantasy setting. Might be worth a look!
Crusades of Valour!
Crusades of Valour!
Jack Daniel
Legend
These boards are so much better than WotC...
Wow, we can actually discuss campaign settings with real-world religion here! What a relief!
My own setting is based upon a number of basic conflicts, and a big triangle between the forces of religion, magic, and technology is one of them, as is the conflict between the old, traditional curch and a number of other Christian churches that mimick the Protestant revolution of the real world. In setting up this campaign, I had a lot of work to do to deviate it from your typical medieval setting, because in the real middle ages folklore, Elves and Dwarves were soulless cretins and any and all magic was black sorcery...
Step one involved revising the creation myth (or creation story, if that's more comfortable for you) so that Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes, and Halflings were all created on equal footing with Mankind. I'm still trying to think up names for the "nonhuman Adam & Eve pairs" for both, and I know I want the first Elves to be Oberon and Titania, to king and queen of the faeries from Elizabethan folklore... if you can help me think of names for the first Dwarves, Gnomes, and Halflings, I'd like the help (although I know I want one of the Dwarves to be called Durin, since Tolkien took that right out of the Norse Elder Edda...)
Step two was revising divine magic so that clerical spells became divine miracles. Spontaneous curing became "faith healing," druids were replaced by a vicar class, and all divine miracles used the psion's "power check" method instead of a set DC -- and on a natural 1, the prayer isn't heard, beacuse unlike wizardry, a priest would not be in total control of what miracles he were granted. Likewise, raise spells aren't 100% accurate either, with the person in question needing to make an alignment-modified level check to see if they're worthy of being brought back. But the rationale behind miracle-working, dead-raising clerics is such that in a world full of demons and evil magic, the Good Lord would see fit to provide the side of good with an extra edge and keep things in the balance!
Step three was a biggie, and took some time to get arcane magic explained away. I didn't want all-out war between the party wizards and clerics, so I just made sure to point out that like early European folklore, there was white and black magic, just like there were good and evil faeries (an idea the early Church never approved of, but didn't really fight against). I named the three main wizard orders after the three Magi (since wizard and mage both come from words meaning "wise man" and share a root with Magi), so there are good-aligned wizard orders in my world named for Caspar, Melchior, and Balthasar, the wise men who payed homage to the infant Jesus.
Finally, I wanted wizards and technologists ridiculing and fighting one another, but I prefer clerics ridiculing and fighting amongst themselves. So, toss in Catholocism, Protestantism, Orthodox, and Anglicanism, and there's a regular recipie for fun! What does everyone think?
Wow, we can actually discuss campaign settings with real-world religion here! What a relief!
My own setting is based upon a number of basic conflicts, and a big triangle between the forces of religion, magic, and technology is one of them, as is the conflict between the old, traditional curch and a number of other Christian churches that mimick the Protestant revolution of the real world. In setting up this campaign, I had a lot of work to do to deviate it from your typical medieval setting, because in the real middle ages folklore, Elves and Dwarves were soulless cretins and any and all magic was black sorcery...
Step one involved revising the creation myth (or creation story, if that's more comfortable for you) so that Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes, and Halflings were all created on equal footing with Mankind. I'm still trying to think up names for the "nonhuman Adam & Eve pairs" for both, and I know I want the first Elves to be Oberon and Titania, to king and queen of the faeries from Elizabethan folklore... if you can help me think of names for the first Dwarves, Gnomes, and Halflings, I'd like the help (although I know I want one of the Dwarves to be called Durin, since Tolkien took that right out of the Norse Elder Edda...)
Step two was revising divine magic so that clerical spells became divine miracles. Spontaneous curing became "faith healing," druids were replaced by a vicar class, and all divine miracles used the psion's "power check" method instead of a set DC -- and on a natural 1, the prayer isn't heard, beacuse unlike wizardry, a priest would not be in total control of what miracles he were granted. Likewise, raise spells aren't 100% accurate either, with the person in question needing to make an alignment-modified level check to see if they're worthy of being brought back. But the rationale behind miracle-working, dead-raising clerics is such that in a world full of demons and evil magic, the Good Lord would see fit to provide the side of good with an extra edge and keep things in the balance!
Step three was a biggie, and took some time to get arcane magic explained away. I didn't want all-out war between the party wizards and clerics, so I just made sure to point out that like early European folklore, there was white and black magic, just like there were good and evil faeries (an idea the early Church never approved of, but didn't really fight against). I named the three main wizard orders after the three Magi (since wizard and mage both come from words meaning "wise man" and share a root with Magi), so there are good-aligned wizard orders in my world named for Caspar, Melchior, and Balthasar, the wise men who payed homage to the infant Jesus.
Finally, I wanted wizards and technologists ridiculing and fighting one another, but I prefer clerics ridiculing and fighting amongst themselves. So, toss in Catholocism, Protestantism, Orthodox, and Anglicanism, and there's a regular recipie for fun! What does everyone think?
Tanager
Registered User
Good stuff everyone.
I've found that I've drawn more gaming inspiration in the past from books about the Bible. Power, Politics and the making of the Bible being a pre-eminent influence. And while this maybe reveals a little of my own slant towards things it can give loads of interesting ideas about the development of scripture and articles of faith. Particularly for those rulers willing to bend the Word to their own purposes.
As for historical eras that might make an interesting Christian themed setting, Arthurian/post-Roman Britain is always a good one. Roman occupied Judea presents some interesting ideas for a gritty rebellion based setting.
of course YMMV,
Tanager
I've found that I've drawn more gaming inspiration in the past from books about the Bible. Power, Politics and the making of the Bible being a pre-eminent influence. And while this maybe reveals a little of my own slant towards things it can give loads of interesting ideas about the development of scripture and articles of faith. Particularly for those rulers willing to bend the Word to their own purposes.
As for historical eras that might make an interesting Christian themed setting, Arthurian/post-Roman Britain is always a good one. Roman occupied Judea presents some interesting ideas for a gritty rebellion based setting.
of course YMMV,
Tanager
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