D&D General The Biggest Problem with Modern Adventures...

[Shardstone]

You can probably take your foot off the gas a little. The very post you quoted was me acknowledging it was an oversight. I realize we are on the internet but that doesn't mean it has to be ALL CAPS RAGE all the time.

Try making an actual case for Radiant Citadel if you think it fulfills my desire. What is good about the adventures? How is it better than the shallow, disjointed adventures of Candlekeep? Are there any real standout people will be talking about in 20 years like Sunless Citadel?

Yes, numerous of the adventures, especially the one in Godsbreath and my favorite adventure, the Fiend in Hollow Mine, are very fun, memorable adventures. Radiant Citadel is written in such a way that its many good adventures give you both new angles and new storytelling paradigms in very unique settings that are fleshed out enough so as to be appealing to explore and elaborate on. Trail of Destruction is another great adventure in there with many cinematic moments and arenas for its combat, and very fun NPCs that I personally love. On top of that, Radiant Citadel feels like it was made for modern tables, and that's because it was; every writer on the team was not an old-hat WotC personal, but an international freelancer of this generation of game design.

To me, Sunless Citadel isn't' that interesting, and I haven't been able to get a group to run it. It is a good adventure, but it isn't one that a lot of newer generation tables are super looking for. Radiant Citadel is, and it does it in spades. The gazetteers are all amazing too. The settings are fresh, evocative, and inviting in a way 1st party settings generally aren't.

 

[Hussar]

You can probably take your foot off the gas a little. The very post you quoted was me acknowledging it was an oversight. I realize we are on the internet but that doesn't mean it has to be ALL CAPS RAGE all the time.

Try making an actual case for Radiant Citadel if you think it fulfills my desire. What is good about the adventures? How is it better than the shallow, disjointed adventures of Candlekeep? Are there any real standout people will be talking about in 20 years like Sunless Citadel?

See I love Candlekeep. It’s a fantastic episodic format so of course the adventures are separate from each other.

Lots of freedom to personalize the modules and add in stuff. I’ve added in The Tarasque Task of Moreen Trask (freebie collaboration of a bunch of patreon creators), an AL adventure about elves that came out with Volos where the pcs travel to the Shadowfell and then rewrote the Grippli adventure to incorporate a huge trap filled dungeon crawl.

Sorry names escape me right now.

But there are some fantastic adventures in Ckeep. Shemshimes is one of the best horror adventures I’ve ever run.

 

[Hussar]

For dms guild, you cannot go wrong with M T Black (sort of famous on En World for his Dragon magazine reviews). He’s got probably everything @Reynard is looking for.

It’s somewhat ironic in that when the OGL was first released, having 3pp cover modules was on of the primary selling points. Now, thirty years later, the OGL is finally the biggest source of adventures and WotC isn’t.

 

[Reynard]

Yes, numerous of the adventures, especially the one in Godsbreath and my favorite adventure, the Fiend in Hollow Mine, are very fun, memorable adventures. Radiant Citadel is written in such a way that its many good adventures give you both new angles and new storytelling paradigms in very unique settings that are fleshed out enough so as to be appealing to explore and elaborate on. Trail of Destruction is another great adventure in there with many cinematic moments and arenas for its combat, and very fun NPCs that I personally love. On top of that, Radiant Citadel feels like it was made for modern tables, and that's because it was; every writer on the team was not an old-hat WotC personal, but an international freelancer of this generation of game design.

To me, Sunless Citadel isn't' that interesting, and I haven't been able to get a group to run it. It is a good adventure, but it isn't one that a lot of newer generation tables are super looking for. Radiant Citadel is, and it does it in spades. The gazetteers are all amazing too. The settings are fresh, evocative, and inviting in a way 1st party settings generally aren't.

Thank you for the detailed response.

 

[Reynard]

For dms guild, you cannot go wrong with M T Black (sort of famous on En World for his Dragon magazine reviews). He’s got probably everything @Reynard is looking for.

I will check it out. Thanks.

It’s somewhat ironic in that when the OGL was first released, having 3pp cover modules was on of the primary selling points. Now, thirty years later, the OGL is finally the biggest source of adventures and WotC isn’t.

20 years, and there were literally thousands of adventures published under the OGL during the 3.x era, so I am not sure what you mean.

 

[Staffan]

Are there any real standout people will be talking about in 20 years like Sunless Citadel?

Sunless Citadel is a standout? I've run it, and while it's a perfectly cromulent dungeon crawl I don't think it's a good adventure. Mostly because big dungeon crawls don't make for good adventures. My rule of thumb is that if you need to take a long rest to complete the dungeon, it is too big. If you're going to go modular, I'd much rather see a small dungeon with lots of interesting encounters on the way to the dungeon, and hopefully in preparing for the dungeon. Or cut the dungeon out entirely and have the adventure be about something that's actually fun.

 

[Reynard]

Sunless Citadel is a standout? I've run it, and while it's a perfectly cromulent dungeon crawl I don't think it's a good adventure. Mostly because big dungeon crawls don't make for good adventures. My rule of thumb is that if you need to take a long rest to complete the dungeon, it is too big. If you're going to go modular, I'd much rather see a small dungeon with lots of interesting encounters on the way to the dungeon, and hopefully in preparing for the dungeon. Or cut the dungeon out entirely and have the adventure be about something that's actually fun.

I don't think.that is a common point of view. Also, yes, Sunless Citadel is considered a classic.

 

[Hussar]

I will check it out. Thanks.

20 years, and there were literally thousands of adventures published under the OGL during the 3.x era, so I am not sure what you mean.

Yup. Modules that virtually no one ever talks about with a couple of exceptions like Rappun Athuk, and pretty much all the bigger 3pp stopped doing by the time 3.5 dropped in order to do their own rulebooks or games or settings for 3e and modules took a far back seat.

It’s very similar to now really. If you want short modules there are thousands available. Literally thousands. But unless it has the official WotC seal, they usually don’t count.

Then again “I want short modules “ has been a refrain for pretty much the entire time of 5e.

 

[Reynard]

Yup. Modules that virtually no one ever talks about with a couple of exceptions like Rappun Athuk, and pretty much all the bigger 3pp stopped doing by the time 3.5 dropped in order to do their own rulebooks or games or settings for 3e and modules took a far back seat.

It’s very similar to now really. If you want short modules there are thousands available. Literally thousands. But unless it has the official WotC seal, they usually don’t count.

Then again “I want short modules “ has been a refrain for pretty much the entire time of 5e.

It's one of the reasons I wish Dungeon was still around-- not necessarily because "official" is better, but at least it is curated. I use pre written modules more than I ever used to (mostly because VTT makes improv hard for me) and would love to do more small ones but finding the quality is hard.

 

[Nuclear Monkey]

If you'll allow me to stick to wotc adventures here's the problems that are consistent with all of them going all the way back to the starter set.

1. Organization. Pertinent information for a map location (room size, illumination, etc.) is mentioned on the first (or sometimes second!) page of room descriptions and is never, ever repeated. I mean who doesn't want to wade through 5 pages of text to verify the ceiling heights in a room.
2. NPC Placement. There's a cool monster your going to meet so we'll stick him right in front of you. Who cares if it doesn't make any sense for him to be there!
3. 3rd Acts. The story has a villain. He's doing things. Why? That's up to the DM! (Curse of Strad is my favorite. The villain brings PCs that can defeat him to his closed land. Why? Because, that's why.)
4. Player motivation. The players will do a quest! Why? For...reasons, like to make money (except Dragon Heist where 4th level characters with that amount of cash would quit adventuring so they have to give it back. Or lost mine where running the forge themselves is a way better option then continuing adventuring).

That's off the top of my head. And some non-wotc adventures do have the same problems, especially towards the end (I'm looking at you, Odyssey of the Dragonlords).