The campaign's final battle - what do you do?

[NewJeffCT]

The climactic session for my 2 1/4 year long D&D campaign is going to be this coming Friday night. It's 3.5E, as that was the current D&D when the campaign started and it was not practical to switch a year later when 4E came out.

I am hoping for a very tough and rewarding battle between a large group of PCs (7), and 4 NPC allies against the evil high priest (EHP)of the god of slavery & tyranny. In coming up with some worthy minions for my EHP, I realized that with just a few good rolls on my part, or a few failed saves by the PCs, it could turn into a TPK pretty quickly. The party has almost always made their saves vs "Save or Die" effects and has stubbornly made some tough Will saves against domination/suggestion/command type spells... but, there is always the chance things change. The one time I rolled well and the party did not, it nearly tanked the campaign, as 3 PCs and one major NPC died.

The players' task is not necessarily to kill the EHP, it is to destroy the artifact he controls before he can activate it (using the blood of a newborn fathered by the EHP, whose mother is a now fallen priestess of freedom...)

That said, has anybody actually come into the final battle of a long campaign only to have a TPK? I suppose I can pull a DM ex machina out of my rear end to help save them, but would prefer not to do that (there will be innocent slaves about... one could be more than he seems. And, I mean this like - "slave slips his shackles and trips an onrushing bad guy" or "slave sees chance of freedom for imprisoned family, throws himself in front of onrushing charger to disrupt charge" and not the slave turning out to be Conan or similar)

Any other options?

 

[the Jester]

That said, has anybody actually come into the final battle of a long campaign only to have a TPK? I suppose I can pull a DM ex machina out of my rear end to help save them, but would prefer not to do that (there will be innocent slaves about... one could be more than he seems)

Any other options?

Almost by definition, when you have a TPK it is in the final battle of a long campaign.

I am a firm believer in letting the pcs fail if they fail. If they lose the battle, I'd start a new group, 1st level, set 20 years later (or something), that has to deal with the consequences of failure.

Heck, I've even had the campaign world devoured by Tharizdun when the pcs failed, so I am certainly not one for DM ex machina action!

 

[weem]

That said, has anybody actually come into the final battle of a long campaign only to have a TPK?

Nope, not yet.

I suppose I can pull a DM ex machina out of my rear end to help save them, but would prefer not to do that (there will be innocent slaves about... one could be more than he seems)

Yea, as a player (well, and as a DM) I am really not into that.

Any other options?

I just wrapped up my first 4e campaign a few months back. It involved a falling combat encounter (see the penny arcade dude's setup) that went very well. But I roll everything out in front of my players and pull no punches.

Because of this, I do tend to at least give a few minutes thought to a TPK... what would I do, how, etc.

For my final encounter (and what would be the last game) I decided that should there be a TPK, the players would be "saved" (losing was not to mean death in this particular encounter anyway) but it would be long after the failure, so there would still be huge consequences. I would then let them know that the story is not yet finished! I would then plan a few more games to wrap things up (probably without another shot at the BBEG, but I did have something else cool in mind).

I was prepared for both outcomes and was excited to see which would occur - either outcome was fine with me, so that's one way of approaching it. My players know that I plan this way and that regardless of the outcome I will at least be somewhat prepared, which means the outcome really is in their hands. In this case I spent almost as much time planning for a TPK as I did for the encounter itself - I wanted either outcome to be a seemless flow of the story onto the next chapter, be it the happy ending or the introduction of one more (brief) chapter.

Almost by definition, when you have a TPK it is in the final battle of a long campaign.

Hehe, this is very true

I am a firm believer in letting the pcs fail if they fail. If they lose the battle, I'd start a new group, 1st level, set 20 years later (or something), that has to deal with the consequences of failure.

Yes, exactly as I mentioned here (mine would have occurred a few years later for example).

 

[NewJeffCT]

Almost by definition, when you have a TPK it is in the final battle of a long campaign.

That is certainly true. However, they are at that stage where if they don't stop them now, it will be too late for them, or anybody else.

I suppose I could run a dark "after the fall" Midnight-like campaign set in the future, as you say.

 

[the Jester]

That is certainly true. However, they are at that stage where if they don't stop them now, it will be too late for them, or anybody else.

I suppose I could run a dark "after the fall" Midnight-like campaign set in the future, as you say.

Well, if the party gets saved by npcs, they prolly won't feel that they have accomplished much. On the other hand, if they learn the hard way that victory is not assured and the dm won't save their bacon, they will always feel like they've earned their victories.

 

[NewJeffCT]

I just wrapped up my first 4e campaign a few months back. It involved a falling combat encounter (see the penny arcade dude's setup) that went very well. But I roll everything out in front of my players and pull no punches.

Because of this, I do tend to at least give a few minutes thought to a TPK... what would I do, how, etc.

For my final encounter (and what would be the last game) I decided that should there be a TPK, the players would be "saved" (losing was not to mean death in this particular encounter anyway) but it would be long after the failure, so there would still be huge consequences. I would then let them know that the story is not yet finished! I would then plan a few more games to wrap things up (probably without another shot at the BBEG, but I did have something else cool in mind).

I was prepared for both outcomes and was excited to see which would occur - either outcome was fine with me, so that's one way of approaching it. My players know that I plan this way and that regardless of the outcome I will at least be somewhat prepared, which means the outcome really is in their hands. In this case I spent almost as much time planning for a TPK as I did for the encounter itself - I wanted either outcome to be a seemless flow of the story onto the next chapter, be it the happy ending or the introduction of one more (brief) chapter..

Good points - my dream would be all the PCs die, save 1, The 1 uses the brave & noble sacrifice of his or her companions to get through the defenses of the EHP and destroy the evil artifact. However, I know that won't happen, so have prepared for the possible failure as well.

And, I make all my rolls out in the open as well - so when the players encountered the EHP's #2 last time out, they saw I rolled three 3s in a row in #2's attempt to escape the grapple (she was in an anti-magic field, so, really had no other options when being grappled)

 

[NewJeffCT]

Well, if the party gets saved by npcs, they prolly won't feel that they have accomplished much. On the other hand, if they learn the hard way that victory is not assured and the dm won't save their bacon, they will always feel like they've earned their victories.

I wasn't thinking "save" the party - more like, one of the slaves frees his shackles and trips an oncoming bad guy, or at least prevents their charge or similar. Nothing major, like one of the prisoners turns out to be a fully armed and buffed Drizz't Do'Urden.

 

[the Jester]

I wasn't thinking "save" the party - more like, one of the slaves frees his shackles and trips an oncoming bad guy, or at least prevents their charge or similar. Nothing major, like one of the prisoners turns out to be a fully armed and buffed Drizz't Do'Urden.

Oh, yeah, I would hardly call that a DM ex machina. Something like that should be fine. Heck, in this post from my story hour, peasants rise up against their humanoid slavers and help the pcs.

 

[Lancelot]

Virtually every campaign I've run since 3e was released has ended with a TPK. Most of those were "unintentional" TPKs, where it wasn't the climax of the campaign. The dice gods simply frowned on the players, and that was that.

However, there have been two particular campaigns which speak more to the original poster's question.

1) Age of Worms. This was our single longest campaign (# sessions) in the 3e era. The party survived (albeit with some individual casualties) all the way to the final confrontation with you-know-who. And I let the dice fall where they may.

• One PC was sucked into the Big Bad and annihilated.
• One PC snapped a staff of the magi and was jettisoned into another plane (his ultimate fate is still hotly debated at the gaming table...).
• One PC had made a deal with a devil to obtain a magic item to give him an edge in the final fight... and when they successfully beat the Big Bad, his soul was claimed and dragged down to the Hells (similar to the ending of a certain CRPG).
• The final PC was the only one who walked away from the fight - and was immediately challenged to a duel to the death by the sole remaining "loose end" bad guy (Prince Zeech). They slugged it out in front of the entire population of the city, and ended up killing each other (mechanically, Zeech put the PC on 0 hp... and he cut down Zeech with his last blow, then bled out).

Despite the fact that it was a TPK, it was by far the best campaign ending that any of us could have devised. It was much more in keeping with the grim, apocalyptic tone of the campaign than a "heroes win" ending.

2) Dragonlance. This was our single biggest campaign (so far) of the 4e era. We played through all of the original modules, using the original Heroes of the Lance. The party made it all the way to DL14 Dragons of Triumph, closed the Dark Queen's gate to the Abyss, and then engaged in combat with an Aspect of Takhisis (Tiamat) herself. They lost. Unlike the Age of Worms ending above, they didn't actually manage to defeat the Big Bad. However, they had already effectively "won" the war. By closing the gate to the Abyss (and killing 4 of the 5 Highlords), they shattered the dark armies beyond all repair. They failed to escape the Dark Queen's vengeance, but that made them no less successful... and their sacrifice turned them into legends for the free peoples of Ansalom.

 

[fba827]

(there will be innocent slaves about... one could be more than he seems)

Pretending for a moment that I were in your campaign and I just played for over 2 years, I'd be annoyed if a nameless slave NPC from the sideline comes out and saves me/us. I invested 2+ years in to this, a slave that i've never met before shouldn't come in to power and save me at the exact right moment.. i'd feel cheap and empty. The same is true of any NPC savior, but especially so if it's some never-before-met-slave who came in to power just right then... just, no, it would cheapen the entire thing. (at least for me).

Bottom line:
The players (and their PCs) worked long and hard to get to this point, THEY should get the spot light save or no one does (and in the case of the later, hopefully they at least did *something* that makes the situation less terrible than it could have been otherwise - and then emphasize that fact to them as to how it is less worse thanks to something they did).

Edit: In re-reading my own post, i'm realizing that the tone is coming off harsh. not sure how to change that without excessive editing, but please note that the harsh tone is not my intent, just trying to answer your question