The Cavalier and the Illusionist
- Thread starter Tuzenbach
- Start date
CombatWombat51
First Post
Well, let's see what I can come up with... I've got the day off, I'm sore, and don't feel like moving from this chair 
Assassins
I'll use the rogue/thief as a base, and compare from there.
Disadvantages compared to Thieves
Most of the assassin disadvantages aren't appropriate to 3.X, because those rules have been done away with.
Assassins took (not much) more XP to level up: Uniform XP tables in 3.X.
They capped out at 15th level: No level caps in 3.X.
No prime requisite for bonus XP for high ability scores: No prime requisites in 3.X.
Higher minimum ability scores: No minimum ability scores in 3.x.
Required races: All races could advance without limit as thieves, but all demi-humans had limits on assassin advancement, except for halflings who couldn't be assassins, and half-orcs who had no limit.
Assassins used their thief abilities, excluding back stabbing, as a thief two levels lower than their assassin level.
Assassins had to be sure to not step on territorial toes at 14th level, and had to kill-or-be-killed to get to 15th level.
Advantages over Thieves
Assassins got ALL thief abilities, and then some. The only real thing the thief had over the assassin was that he advanced faster, without limit, and was better at his thief skills.
Assassins got 3 proficient weapons at first level, and thereafter advanced at the same rate as thieves. Assassins could choose from any weapon, where thieves had a limited list. Also, assassins only suffered a -2 to hit when using unproficient weapons. I think that's neat, because that's the same as fighters and rangers (and only those 3 classes).
Assassins could learn (highly) secret languages: no secret languages in 3.x.
Assassins were explicitly allowed to use poison. I'll use my Poison Use feat.
Assassins could disguise themselves, with a damn good chance of success. Simple Disguise skill.
Assassins got a mob of followers at 14th level: Sounds like Leadership to me. Maybe modified without a cohort.
Assassins could use any shield, and thieves could not use any.
And finally, Assassins could freaking kill people. If an assassin got surprise, he had a roughly 50% chance to kill someone of equal level. Flat out dead. No save, no nothing. Oh, and they could get paid all kinds of cash for it, and get good XP out of it! Since in 1E, you got XP for GP, when you got that 5,000 gp for killing someone, you got the XP for the person, and you also got 5,000 XP for the cash! Sweet deal.
Summary
Alot of that stuff just doesn't translate. I feel that it boils down to assassins being better in combat, assassinating things, followers, and not as many skill points.
3.5 Core Assassin
For the skeleton (or "armature", since I've been reading about sculpting lately), I say we go with Good Reflex, Poor Fortitude, and Poor Will. In a perfect world, I'd give them a Medium Ref and Fort, but I know that makes some peoples' eyes bleed for some reason.
References abound that assassins were better fighters than thieves, such as the line in the PHB "...they are generally superior to thieves in combat." So I'll give them a d8 for HD. Medium BAB. Light armor, all simple and martial weapons. I'd say all shields since all-or-none is the norm, but I twitch at the idea of assassins with tower shields. So I'll say bucklers and light shields.
6 skill points per level sounds fine. Skills Gather Info to find out about contracts, Listen, Spot, and Search to find the targets, and Climb, Jump, Hide, MS, Bluff, and Disguise to get to the targets. And Intimidate just fits
For the class abilities, Death Attack is obviously first on the list.
My version of Poison Use (no chance to poison yourself, and a +2 to the DC's of poison you deliver) at 4th level.
Sneak Attack +1d6 at every odd level, but I might cut that down later depending on how it all turns out.
Followers, as per Leadership at 14th level, and again at 20th. No cohorts though (unless they take Leadership on their own).
So, that gives us...
Assassin
Flavor Text: Assassins kill stuff and don't look goofy like in the DMG.
Game Rule Information
Assassins have the following game statistics.
Abilities: Dexterity is important for many class skills, as well as armor class. Intelligence determines how accurate and deadly an assassin's death attack is.
Alignment: Any evil
Hit Die: d8
Class Skills
The assassin’s class skills are Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Disguise (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).
Skill Points per Level: 6 + Intelligence modifier per level
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the assassin.
Weapons and Armor Proficiency: The assassin is proficient in simple and martial weapons, light armor, light shields, and bucklers.
Death Attack (1st Level, Ex): Assassins can slay their foes with a single careful blow. Same as DMG assassin, page 180, except there's no paralyzing option, and the DC is 10 + half class level + Intelligence modifier.
Sneak Attack (1st Level, Ex): An assassin knows how to strike the most vital of areas. You do 1d6 sneak attack damage whenever your opponent is denied his Dexterity bonus to armor class and whenever you flank him. You get an additional 1d6 sneak attack damage every odd level. This sneak attack damage stacks with sneak attack damage from other sources.
Creatures that are immune to critical hits are immune to this ability.
Poison Use (4th Level, Ex): Assassins know how to properly apply poisons so to gain maximum effect. You don’t risk accidentally poisoning yourself when applying poison to a weapon. Additionally, when you poison an opponent with a weapon, the DC of the poison is increased by 2.
Guildmaster Assassin (14th Level, Ex): Assassins of this prowess may attract a following of cutthroats and scoundrels. You gain followers as per the Leadership feat. These followers are evil, and are mostly composed of assassins, though other classes are possible, especially rogues and fighters.
You may choose to not attract followers, though though your choice is final (not counting the Leadership feat, or the Grandfather of Assassins class ability).
Grandfather of Assassins (20th Level, Ex): At the pinacle of their power and infamy. You gain followers as per the Guildmaster Assassin class ability.
Like the Guildmaster Assassin class ability, you may choose to not attract followers.
Kinda bland, but I like it It might even be on the underpowered side. I'd like to add some ability related to Disguise and/or Hide around mid levels, but I'm not sure what would work while staying non-magical. I hope this helps you, or at least pushes you in a good direction.
I'll do up the cavalier today, too, cuz I'm just that bored
Assassins
I'll use the rogue/thief as a base, and compare from there.
Disadvantages compared to Thieves
Most of the assassin disadvantages aren't appropriate to 3.X, because those rules have been done away with.
Assassins took (not much) more XP to level up: Uniform XP tables in 3.X.
They capped out at 15th level: No level caps in 3.X.
No prime requisite for bonus XP for high ability scores: No prime requisites in 3.X.
Higher minimum ability scores: No minimum ability scores in 3.x.
Required races: All races could advance without limit as thieves, but all demi-humans had limits on assassin advancement, except for halflings who couldn't be assassins, and half-orcs who had no limit.
Assassins used their thief abilities, excluding back stabbing, as a thief two levels lower than their assassin level.
Assassins had to be sure to not step on territorial toes at 14th level, and had to kill-or-be-killed to get to 15th level.
Advantages over Thieves
Assassins got ALL thief abilities, and then some. The only real thing the thief had over the assassin was that he advanced faster, without limit, and was better at his thief skills.
Assassins got 3 proficient weapons at first level, and thereafter advanced at the same rate as thieves. Assassins could choose from any weapon, where thieves had a limited list. Also, assassins only suffered a -2 to hit when using unproficient weapons. I think that's neat, because that's the same as fighters and rangers (and only those 3 classes).
Assassins could learn (highly) secret languages: no secret languages in 3.x.
Assassins were explicitly allowed to use poison. I'll use my Poison Use feat.
Assassins could disguise themselves, with a damn good chance of success. Simple Disguise skill.
Assassins got a mob of followers at 14th level: Sounds like Leadership to me. Maybe modified without a cohort.
Assassins could use any shield, and thieves could not use any.
And finally, Assassins could freaking kill people. If an assassin got surprise, he had a roughly 50% chance to kill someone of equal level. Flat out dead. No save, no nothing. Oh, and they could get paid all kinds of cash for it, and get good XP out of it! Since in 1E, you got XP for GP, when you got that 5,000 gp for killing someone, you got the XP for the person, and you also got 5,000 XP for the cash! Sweet deal.
Summary
Alot of that stuff just doesn't translate. I feel that it boils down to assassins being better in combat, assassinating things, followers, and not as many skill points.
3.5 Core Assassin
For the skeleton (or "armature", since I've been reading about sculpting lately), I say we go with Good Reflex, Poor Fortitude, and Poor Will. In a perfect world, I'd give them a Medium Ref and Fort, but I know that makes some peoples' eyes bleed for some reason.
References abound that assassins were better fighters than thieves, such as the line in the PHB "...they are generally superior to thieves in combat."
So I'll give them a d8 for HD. Medium BAB. Light armor, all simple and martial weapons. I'd say all shields since all-or-none is the norm, but I twitch at the idea of assassins with tower shields. So I'll say bucklers and light shields.6 skill points per level sounds fine. Skills Gather Info to find out about contracts, Listen, Spot, and Search to find the targets, and Climb, Jump, Hide, MS, Bluff, and Disguise to get to the targets. And Intimidate just fits
For the class abilities, Death Attack is obviously first on the list.
My version of Poison Use (no chance to poison yourself, and a +2 to the DC's of poison you deliver) at 4th level.
Sneak Attack +1d6 at every odd level, but I might cut that down later depending on how it all turns out.
Followers, as per Leadership at 14th level, and again at 20th. No cohorts though (unless they take Leadership on their own).
So, that gives us...
Assassin
Flavor Text: Assassins kill stuff and don't look goofy like in the DMG.
Game Rule Information
Assassins have the following game statistics.
Abilities: Dexterity is important for many class skills, as well as armor class. Intelligence determines how accurate and deadly an assassin's death attack is.
Alignment: Any evil
Hit Die: d8
Class Skills
The assassin’s class skills are Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Disguise (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).
Skill Points per Level: 6 + Intelligence modifier per level
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the assassin.
Weapons and Armor Proficiency: The assassin is proficient in simple and martial weapons, light armor, light shields, and bucklers.
Code:
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
1 +0 +0 +2 +0 Death Attack, Sneak Attack +1d6
2 +1 +0 +3 +0
3 +2 +1 +3 +1 Sneak Attack +2d6
4 +3 +1 +4 +1 Poison Use
5 +3 +1 +4 +1 Sneak Attack +3d6
6 +4 +2 +5 +2
7 +5 +2 +5 +2 Sneak Attack +4d6
8 +6 +2 +6 +2
9 +6 +3 +6 +3 Sneak Attack +5d6
10 +7 +3 +7 +3
11 +8 +3 +7 +3 Sneak Attack +6d6
12 +9 +4 +8 +4
13 +9 +4 +8 +4 Sneak Attack +7d6
14 +10 +4 +9 +4 Guildmaster Assassin
15 +11 +5 +9 +5 Sneak Attack +8d6
16 +12 +5 +10 +5
17 +12 +5 +10 +5 Sneak Attack +9d6
18 +13 +6 +11 +6
19 +14 +6 +11 +6 Sneak Attack +10d6
20 +15 +6 +12 +6 Grandfather of AssassinsDeath Attack (1st Level, Ex): Assassins can slay their foes with a single careful blow. Same as DMG assassin, page 180, except there's no paralyzing option, and the DC is 10 + half class level + Intelligence modifier.
Sneak Attack (1st Level, Ex): An assassin knows how to strike the most vital of areas. You do 1d6 sneak attack damage whenever your opponent is denied his Dexterity bonus to armor class and whenever you flank him. You get an additional 1d6 sneak attack damage every odd level. This sneak attack damage stacks with sneak attack damage from other sources.
Creatures that are immune to critical hits are immune to this ability.
Poison Use (4th Level, Ex): Assassins know how to properly apply poisons so to gain maximum effect. You don’t risk accidentally poisoning yourself when applying poison to a weapon. Additionally, when you poison an opponent with a weapon, the DC of the poison is increased by 2.
Guildmaster Assassin (14th Level, Ex): Assassins of this prowess may attract a following of cutthroats and scoundrels. You gain followers as per the Leadership feat. These followers are evil, and are mostly composed of assassins, though other classes are possible, especially rogues and fighters.
You may choose to not attract followers, though though your choice is final (not counting the Leadership feat, or the Grandfather of Assassins class ability).
Grandfather of Assassins (20th Level, Ex): At the pinacle of their power and infamy. You gain followers as per the Guildmaster Assassin class ability.
Like the Guildmaster Assassin class ability, you may choose to not attract followers.
Kinda bland, but I like it
It might even be on the underpowered side. I'd like to add some ability related to Disguise and/or Hide around mid levels, but I'm not sure what would work while staying non-magical. I hope this helps you, or at least pushes you in a good direction.I'll do up the cavalier today, too, cuz I'm just that bored
Tuzenbach
First Post
Thanks, CombatWombat! That was amazing stuff!
I was wondering if the Thief-Acrobat (or I guess it would be called *Rogue-Acrobat* now) has been written up as a Prestige Class. I quite liked the idea of them. I actually wanted to eventually modify it so that Assassins could become Assassin-Acrobats if they wished when they reached the appropriate level. I suppose I was trying to create the "Western Ninja", if such a thing exists!
I was wondering if the Thief-Acrobat (or I guess it would be called *Rogue-Acrobat* now) has been written up as a Prestige Class. I quite liked the idea of them. I actually wanted to eventually modify it so that Assassins could become Assassin-Acrobats if they wished when they reached the appropriate level. I suppose I was trying to create the "Western Ninja", if such a thing exists!
CombatWombat51
First Post
Oh, assassins also got their d6 all the way till Gramps, while thieve's started getting a crummy 2 HP/level at 11th. Another reason why I feel converted assassins should get a d8 for HD And assassins that are no longer evil keep all their class abilities, though their followers are likely to kill the ex-Guildmaster/Grandfather in the night, as is their way.
Anyhow, it's funny you should mention thief-acrobats... oh, and keep in mind that IMC I use a very martial monk... no dim door, wuxia jumping, or what have you. I also love the idea of ninja-types (they're mammals, after all), and I've been quite close to making a ninja PrC, but I don't think I could do it with a straight face, and I know I'd never use it IMC
Acrobat
Incredible gymnastic talent is the forte of an acrobat. They master amazing feats of agility, and have a unique fighting style that involves flips, rolls, cartwheels, and other sprightly maneuvers.
Some characters choose to become acrobats in order to add an interesting and rare flare to their fighting style. Other people train as acrobats to gain entry into unsuspecting locations. Unsurprisingly, most acrobats make their fortune as performers that dazzle spectators with their incredible skills.
Rogues are the most likely candidates for the acrobat class. Most other classes have difficulty meeting the tough requirements, but any class can benefit from the talents that an acrobat acquires.
Requirements
To qualify to become an acrobat (Acb), a character must fulfill all the following criteria. Skills: Balance 6, Climb 6, Jump 6, Tumble 6
Feats: Dodge, Mobility
Special: Evasion
Game Rule Information
Acrobats have the following game statistics.
Hit Die: d6
Class Skills: The acrobat’s class skills are Climb (Dex), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), and Tumble (Dex).
Skill Points per Level: 6 + Intelligence modifier per level
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the acrobat.
Weapons and Armor Proficiency: The acrobat is proficient in all simple weapons, but not with any armor or shields.
Acrobatic (1st Level, Ex): Acrobats defend themselves with their agility, not with their weapons. Your defense bonus (from any source) is now a dodge bonus.
Additionally, you get your class level as a bonus to Jump and Tumble checks.
This ability can only be used when wearing no armor and not using a shield, and carrying a light load.
*****
NOTE: I obviously use a defense bonus in my games. If I didn't, I'd replace that ability with, say, giving them a +1 dodge bonus to AC for every 4 ranks they have in Tumble, with a maximum bonus equal to their class level.
*****
Soft Landing (1st Level, Ex): An acrobat can reduce the impact of a fall by properly distributing his body weight, taking advantage of aerodynamics, and rolling. When you fall, treat the distance as 10 feet shorter than it actually is. This increases to 20 feet at 3rd level, and 30 feet at 5th level.
This ability can only be used when wearing no armor and not using a shield, and carrying a light load.
Boundless Leap (2nd Level, Ex): Acrobats can jump astounding distances. Your maximum jumping distance isn’t limited by your height.
This ability can only be used when wearing no armor and not using a shield, and carrying a light load.
Instant Stand (2nd Level, Ex): By kipping up, rolling, or using other gymnastic maneuvers, an acrobat can easily regain his footing. You can stand-up from a prone position as a free action that doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity.
This ability can only be used when wearing no armor and not using a shield, and carrying a light load.
Deft Retrieval (3rd Level, Ex): It can be dangerous to pick up fallen Items, especially weapons, amidst combat, but trained acrobats can do it with ease. You can pick up unattended items from as a free action that doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity. You may also do this while using the Tumble skill to move through an area.
This ability can only be used when wearing no armor and not using a shield, and carrying a light load.
Nimble (3rd Level, Ex): Acrobats are notoriously light on their feet and use this to their advantage in melee. When you make a check that uses your Strength modifier for a bull rush, grapple, overrun or trip attempt, you may use your Dexterity modifier in place of your Strength modifier.
This ability can only be used when wearing no armor and not using a shield, and carrying a light load.
Swift (4th Level, Ex): Skilled acrobats use their muscle and agility to enhance their abilities. You add your Strength and Dexterity modifier to all Climb, Jump, and Tumble checks.
This ability can only be used when wearing no armor and not using a shield, and carrying a light load.
Surefooted (4th Level, Ex): After much training, an acrobat is just at home on walls, tight ropes, and other precarious surfaces as normal men are on the ground. With a successful Balance or Climb check (as appropriate), you can move your full speed as a move action. As a full-round action, you can move double your speed if you make two checks. Additionally, you can take 10 on all Balance and Climb checks unless you’re engaged in melee.
Furthermore, you don’t suffer any penalties (effectively off-balance or stunned) if you’re attacked while climbing or balancing, though you still need to make the usual checks to avoid falling if you take damage.
This ability can only be used when wearing no armor and not using a shield, and carrying a light load.
Improved Evasion (5th Level, Ex): Master acrobats can avoid deadly attacks with incredible grace. If exposed to any effect that normally allows a Reflex save for half damage, you take no damage with a successful save, and only half damage on a failed saving throw.
This ability can only be used when wearing no armor and not using a shield, and carrying a light load.
And assassins that are no longer evil keep all their class abilities, though their followers are likely to kill the ex-Guildmaster/Grandfather in the night, as is their way.Tuzenbach said:
Anyhow, it's funny you should mention thief-acrobats... oh, and keep in mind that IMC I use a very martial monk... no dim door, wuxia jumping, or what have you. I also love the idea of ninja-types (they're mammals, after all), and I've been quite close to making a ninja PrC, but I don't think I could do it with a straight face, and I know I'd never use it IMC
Acrobat
Incredible gymnastic talent is the forte of an acrobat. They master amazing feats of agility, and have a unique fighting style that involves flips, rolls, cartwheels, and other sprightly maneuvers.
Some characters choose to become acrobats in order to add an interesting and rare flare to their fighting style. Other people train as acrobats to gain entry into unsuspecting locations. Unsurprisingly, most acrobats make their fortune as performers that dazzle spectators with their incredible skills.
Rogues are the most likely candidates for the acrobat class. Most other classes have difficulty meeting the tough requirements, but any class can benefit from the talents that an acrobat acquires.
Requirements
To qualify to become an acrobat (Acb), a character must fulfill all the following criteria. Skills: Balance 6, Climb 6, Jump 6, Tumble 6
Feats: Dodge, Mobility
Special: Evasion
Game Rule Information
Acrobats have the following game statistics.
Hit Die: d6
Class Skills: The acrobat’s class skills are Climb (Dex), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), and Tumble (Dex).
Skill Points per Level: 6 + Intelligence modifier per level
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the acrobat.
Weapons and Armor Proficiency: The acrobat is proficient in all simple weapons, but not with any armor or shields.
Code:
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
1 +0 +0 +2 +0 Acrobatic Defense, Soft Landing 10’
2 +1 +0 +3 +0 Boundless Leap, Instant Stand
3 +2 +1 +3 +1 Deft Retrieval, Nimble, Soft Landing 20’
4 +3 +1 +4 +1 Surefooted, Swift
5 +3 +1 +4 +1 Improved Evasion, Soft Landing 30’Acrobatic (1st Level, Ex): Acrobats defend themselves with their agility, not with their weapons. Your defense bonus (from any source) is now a dodge bonus.
Additionally, you get your class level as a bonus to Jump and Tumble checks.
This ability can only be used when wearing no armor and not using a shield, and carrying a light load.
*****
NOTE: I obviously use a defense bonus in my games. If I didn't, I'd replace that ability with, say, giving them a +1 dodge bonus to AC for every 4 ranks they have in Tumble, with a maximum bonus equal to their class level.
*****
Soft Landing (1st Level, Ex): An acrobat can reduce the impact of a fall by properly distributing his body weight, taking advantage of aerodynamics, and rolling. When you fall, treat the distance as 10 feet shorter than it actually is. This increases to 20 feet at 3rd level, and 30 feet at 5th level.
This ability can only be used when wearing no armor and not using a shield, and carrying a light load.
Boundless Leap (2nd Level, Ex): Acrobats can jump astounding distances. Your maximum jumping distance isn’t limited by your height.
This ability can only be used when wearing no armor and not using a shield, and carrying a light load.
Instant Stand (2nd Level, Ex): By kipping up, rolling, or using other gymnastic maneuvers, an acrobat can easily regain his footing. You can stand-up from a prone position as a free action that doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity.
This ability can only be used when wearing no armor and not using a shield, and carrying a light load.
Deft Retrieval (3rd Level, Ex): It can be dangerous to pick up fallen Items, especially weapons, amidst combat, but trained acrobats can do it with ease. You can pick up unattended items from as a free action that doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity. You may also do this while using the Tumble skill to move through an area.
This ability can only be used when wearing no armor and not using a shield, and carrying a light load.
Nimble (3rd Level, Ex): Acrobats are notoriously light on their feet and use this to their advantage in melee. When you make a check that uses your Strength modifier for a bull rush, grapple, overrun or trip attempt, you may use your Dexterity modifier in place of your Strength modifier.
This ability can only be used when wearing no armor and not using a shield, and carrying a light load.
Swift (4th Level, Ex): Skilled acrobats use their muscle and agility to enhance their abilities. You add your Strength and Dexterity modifier to all Climb, Jump, and Tumble checks.
This ability can only be used when wearing no armor and not using a shield, and carrying a light load.
Surefooted (4th Level, Ex): After much training, an acrobat is just at home on walls, tight ropes, and other precarious surfaces as normal men are on the ground. With a successful Balance or Climb check (as appropriate), you can move your full speed as a move action. As a full-round action, you can move double your speed if you make two checks. Additionally, you can take 10 on all Balance and Climb checks unless you’re engaged in melee.
Furthermore, you don’t suffer any penalties (effectively off-balance or stunned) if you’re attacked while climbing or balancing, though you still need to make the usual checks to avoid falling if you take damage.
This ability can only be used when wearing no armor and not using a shield, and carrying a light load.
Improved Evasion (5th Level, Ex): Master acrobats can avoid deadly attacks with incredible grace. If exposed to any effect that normally allows a Reflex save for half damage, you take no damage with a successful save, and only half damage on a failed saving throw.
This ability can only be used when wearing no armor and not using a shield, and carrying a light load.
CombatWombat51
First Post
Oh yeah, assassin's need starting cash. 4d4 x 10 gp (100 gp) sounds good.
About the cavalier... there's a couple problems with writing it up, though I would like to. For one, the class was overpowered then, so it'll be hard to cut it down now. Two, paladins were a sub-class of cavaliers, and 3.X paladins hardly resemble their old incarnations. So I dunno... should I reverse engineer my cavalier off the modern paladin, or should I just take what UA gives me, and try and make something balanced out of that? I think I'm just going to go for the feel, and forget about keeping them near paladins. I think the hardest part will be keeping their flavor without outshining fighters.
Addressing the Cavalier (in No Particular Order)
Different races of cavalier got different tid bits. Most importantly, elven and half-elven cavaliers could use composite short bows with no loss of honor. Human cavalier got +1 to hit on all attack rolls made while mounted. Other races couldn't be cavaliers. IMC, I'd keep those two options, because I only allow 4 races, and it'd be easy to make something else race-specific for cavaliers for the other two races. For this cavalier, however, I'm just going to dump the idea
Cavaliers that didn't roll good enough on the social class had to waste 1,500 XP advanced through "-1" level and "0" level. They also tended to waste their lives, being a frontline fighter and having 1d4+1 for hit points isn't a good combination. I'm gonna drop that.
Cavaliers got d12's for hit dice, but they don't need that anymore.
Cavaliers could fight at negatives. Houserules that alter Death's Door aside, I think fighting at negatives is dumb. I mean, it's 10 extra hit points. Characters should learn to run if they don't want to land in negatives *evil grin*
They used to be any good, but they could change alignment with no penalty by 4th level. I always have thought it was silly to have that major code of honor, but have an (temporary) ethical requirement, not an orderly requirement. So I'm making them any lawful
They had that problem with wearing peasant armor, so I'm going to give them only medium and heavy armor proficiency.
Speaking of their code, I'm going to modify it. A lot
Their riding bonuses are all covered by the Ride skill, except for the part about pushing the mount on to greater speeds. Also, cavaliers used to get spiffy horses because they could make a guess on how many hit points a horse had, out of its maximum. I think I'll give them a special mount that's similar to the 3.0's paladin's mount, no extra intelligence or magic stuff, just tack 10' onto the Speed, and that will handle that.
Cavaliers were able to ride spiffy mounts at higher level, but that's all roleplaying, as far as I'm concerned. Well, I think I'll actually work it kind of like how druids can have more powerful animal companions. Yeah, I like that Hmm, I'm lazy, come to think of it... I'll wory about the animal companion-like steed, later
"...the cavalier can increase his Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores." I think I can work that in, and it'll be ok. I'll just ditch that mechanic though.
The parrying bit... ok, that's messy. It was messy then, too. I'm just gonna drop that, and say that if the cavalier wants to parry, get Combat Expertise Note, IMC, I use a defense bonus (like d20 Modern, I guess, but I don't how theirs works), and I'd give the cavalier a good defense bonus (progressing like a good saving throw).
Cavaliers got "weapons of choice", and got good with them. I'm going to just give them bonuses with the lance, and let them take Weapon Focus, like everyone else
Cavaliers also got multiple attacks with their favored weapons as though they were 5 levels higher. That's really hard to translate, and I don't think it's a flavorful enough ability to bother.
They got +1 to damage/level while using a lance while mounted. Yikes. I think instead of such an awesome ability (like ranger's giant-class damage bonus *drool*), I'll give them a guarenteed crit with a lance x times/day, with x increasing throughout the levels.
Cavaliers had to be trained by somebody special. But that's not a big deal anymore, because everyone had to be trained back then.
They were immune to fear, and radiated pro evil. Sounds like the paladin's Aura of Courage to me. However, I don't want to step on the toes of the paladin too much, so I won't give them the radius
They were 90% resistant to mind-affecting effects, and got a +2 vs. illusions. Sounds like a good Will save to me. Like the assassin, a perfect world would allow me to give them a medium Will save *sigh*
The coat of arms and armorial bearing is all roleplaying stuff, as I see it.
Full hospitality is role-playing, too.
Skills will be 2/level.
Cavalier
Flavor Text: Cavaliers are badass knight-types that mop the floor with you while insulting your lineage.
Game Rule Information
Cavaliers have the following game statistics.
Abilities: Strength is important for melee, and Constitution for hit points. Charisma makes a cavalier a more believable snooty noble.
Alignment: Any lawful
Hit Die: d10
Starting Gold: 8d4 x 10 gp (200 gp)
Class Skills
The cavalier's class skills are Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Knowledge: Nobility (Int), Profession (Wis), and Ride (Dex).
Skill Points per Level: 2 + Intelligence modifier per level
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the cavalier.
Weapons and Armor Proficiency: The cavalier is proficient in simple and martial weapons, medium and heavy armor, and all shields.
Code of Honor: Cavaliers are willingly bound by a strict code of honor and they are immensely proud of their steadfast will and their reputations as honorable men. If you break any of these codes or commit a chaotic act, you can’t gain levels as a cavalier until you apologize, atone, and/or right the wrong that you committed. If you lose your lawful alignment, you become an ex-cavalier, but you retain all of your abilities.
Honor, to a cavalier, is defined as follows:
- Never deceive. This includes lying, ambushing, trickery, and misleading in any way. However, refusing to answer a question is perfectly fair.
- Never harbor cowardice. This includes declining a challenge or retreating from battle for mere self-preservation. Battling an opponent on unfair terms (in your favor) is also prohibited, and you must seek to battle your foe at an even level. Thus, people shouldn’t be killed in their sleep, and an unarmed opponent shouldn’t be slaughtered by the sword. However, you aren’t stupid and don’t consider creatures such as bears or dragons to be unarmed. Also, you’re forbidden to use ranged attacks because an honorable man battles his opponents face-to-face.
- Remain ever vigilant. This means never ignoring a dishonorable deed, and always punishing those who deserve it. This doesn’t necessarily mean charging an enemy kingdom, but it does mean doing anything that you can to right the offense.
Mighty Steed (1st Level, Ex): A cavalier is practically born in the saddle, and his valiant steed is always nearby. The cavalier begins play with a heavy warhorse, or war pony for small characters. The mount gets +2 to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution, and has +1 hit point per hit die (in addition to the addition hit points from Constitution).
This mount isn't magical in any way; it's simply an exceptional example of it's species. These abilities aren't bestowed by the cavalier. Rather, the animal was superior, and the cavalier simply knows what to look for.
Strict Regimen (2nd Level, Ex): A difficult training regimen fills the morning of cavaliers. At 2nd level and every 4 levels thereafter, the cavalier can add one point to his Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution. This increase isn't a bonus; it's identical to the increase gained from levels.
Indomitable Valor (3rd Level, Ex): Cavaliers are bastions of courage and never falter in the face of doom. Cavaliers are immune to fear (magical or otherwise).
Skewer (4th Level, Ex): A lance can cause incredible damage to the enemy of a cavalier. You must declare that you're using this ability before you make your attack roll while using a lance while mounted and charging. You get a bonus to hit equal to your level divided by four. If you hit, you automatically score a critical hit.
You may use this ability once per day at 4th level, twice per day at 8th level, and so on, until 5 times per day at 20th level.
Honestly, I don't like the Strict Regimen very much. It doesn't have much in the way of flavor, but I think it's a decent translation of the 1E cavalier's ability. I could have thrown in a pretty exact "weapon of choice" ability, but that's robbing the fighter of his shtick. And again, some plain ol' plusses to hit isn't exactly exciting.
You could even make a more generic Knight class by dropping Mighty Steed, and making Skewer apply with any weapon with which the character has Weapon Focus.
About the cavalier... there's a couple problems with writing it up, though I would like to. For one, the class was overpowered then, so it'll be hard to cut it down now. Two, paladins were a sub-class of cavaliers, and 3.X paladins hardly resemble their old incarnations. So I dunno... should I reverse engineer my cavalier off the modern paladin, or should I just take what UA gives me, and try and make something balanced out of that? I think I'm just going to go for the feel, and forget about keeping them near paladins. I think the hardest part will be keeping their flavor without outshining fighters.
Addressing the Cavalier (in No Particular Order)
Different races of cavalier got different tid bits. Most importantly, elven and half-elven cavaliers could use composite short bows with no loss of honor. Human cavalier got +1 to hit on all attack rolls made while mounted. Other races couldn't be cavaliers. IMC, I'd keep those two options, because I only allow 4 races, and it'd be easy to make something else race-specific for cavaliers for the other two races. For this cavalier, however, I'm just going to dump the idea
Cavaliers that didn't roll good enough on the social class had to waste 1,500 XP advanced through "-1" level and "0" level. They also tended to waste their lives, being a frontline fighter and having 1d4+1 for hit points isn't a good combination. I'm gonna drop that.
Cavaliers got d12's for hit dice, but they don't need that anymore.
Cavaliers could fight at negatives. Houserules that alter Death's Door aside, I think fighting at negatives is dumb. I mean, it's 10 extra hit points. Characters should learn to run if they don't want to land in negatives *evil grin*
They used to be any good, but they could change alignment with no penalty by 4th level. I always have thought it was silly to have that major code of honor, but have an (temporary) ethical requirement, not an orderly requirement. So I'm making them any lawful
They had that problem with wearing peasant armor, so I'm going to give them only medium and heavy armor proficiency.
Speaking of their code, I'm going to modify it. A lot
Their riding bonuses are all covered by the Ride skill, except for the part about pushing the mount on to greater speeds. Also, cavaliers used to get spiffy horses because they could make a guess on how many hit points a horse had, out of its maximum. I think I'll give them a special mount that's similar to the 3.0's paladin's mount, no extra intelligence or magic stuff, just tack 10' onto the Speed, and that will handle that.
Cavaliers were able to ride spiffy mounts at higher level, but that's all roleplaying, as far as I'm concerned. Well, I think I'll actually work it kind of like how druids can have more powerful animal companions. Yeah, I like that
Hmm, I'm lazy, come to think of it... I'll wory about the animal companion-like steed, later "...the cavalier can increase his Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores." I think I can work that in, and it'll be ok. I'll just ditch that mechanic though.
The parrying bit... ok, that's messy. It was messy then, too. I'm just gonna drop that, and say that if the cavalier wants to parry, get Combat Expertise
Note, IMC, I use a defense bonus (like d20 Modern, I guess, but I don't how theirs works), and I'd give the cavalier a good defense bonus (progressing like a good saving throw).Cavaliers got "weapons of choice", and got good with them. I'm going to just give them bonuses with the lance, and let them take Weapon Focus, like everyone else
Cavaliers also got multiple attacks with their favored weapons as though they were 5 levels higher. That's really hard to translate, and I don't think it's a flavorful enough ability to bother.
They got +1 to damage/level while using a lance while mounted. Yikes. I think instead of such an awesome ability (like ranger's giant-class damage bonus *drool*), I'll give them a guarenteed crit with a lance x times/day, with x increasing throughout the levels.
Cavaliers had to be trained by somebody special. But that's not a big deal anymore, because everyone had to be trained back then.
They were immune to fear, and radiated pro evil. Sounds like the paladin's Aura of Courage to me. However, I don't want to step on the toes of the paladin too much, so I won't give them the radius
They were 90% resistant to mind-affecting effects, and got a +2 vs. illusions. Sounds like a good Will save to me. Like the assassin, a perfect world would allow me to give them a medium Will save *sigh*
The coat of arms and armorial bearing is all roleplaying stuff, as I see it.
Full hospitality is role-playing, too.
Skills will be 2/level.
Cavalier
Flavor Text: Cavaliers are badass knight-types that mop the floor with you while insulting your lineage.
Game Rule Information
Cavaliers have the following game statistics.
Abilities: Strength is important for melee, and Constitution for hit points. Charisma makes a cavalier a more believable snooty noble.
Alignment: Any lawful
Hit Die: d10
Starting Gold: 8d4 x 10 gp (200 gp)
Class Skills
The cavalier's class skills are Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Knowledge: Nobility (Int), Profession (Wis), and Ride (Dex).
Skill Points per Level: 2 + Intelligence modifier per level
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the cavalier.
Weapons and Armor Proficiency: The cavalier is proficient in simple and martial weapons, medium and heavy armor, and all shields.
Code:
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
1 +1 +2 +0 +2 Code of Honor, Mighty Steed
2 +2 +3 +0 +3 Strict Regimen
3 +3 +3 +1 +3 Indomitable Valor
4 +4 +4 +1 +4 Skewer 1/day, +1
5 +5 +4 +1 +4
6 +6 +5 +2 +5 Strict Regimen
7 +7 +5 +2 +5
8 +8 +6 +2 +6 Skewer 2/day, +2
9 +9 +6 +3 +6
10 +10 +7 +3 +7 Strict Regimen
11 +11 +7 +3 +7
12 +12 +8 +4 +8 Skewer 3/day, +3
13 +13 +8 +4 +8
14 +14 +9 +4 +9 Strict Regimen
15 +15 +9 +5 +9
16 +16 +10 +5 +10 Skewer 4/day, +4
17 +17 +10 +5 +10
18 +18 +11 +6 +11 Strict Regimen
19 +19 +11 +6 +11
20 +20 +12 +6 +12 Skewer 5/day, +5Code of Honor: Cavaliers are willingly bound by a strict code of honor and they are immensely proud of their steadfast will and their reputations as honorable men. If you break any of these codes or commit a chaotic act, you can’t gain levels as a cavalier until you apologize, atone, and/or right the wrong that you committed. If you lose your lawful alignment, you become an ex-cavalier, but you retain all of your abilities.
Honor, to a cavalier, is defined as follows:
- Never deceive. This includes lying, ambushing, trickery, and misleading in any way. However, refusing to answer a question is perfectly fair.
- Never harbor cowardice. This includes declining a challenge or retreating from battle for mere self-preservation. Battling an opponent on unfair terms (in your favor) is also prohibited, and you must seek to battle your foe at an even level. Thus, people shouldn’t be killed in their sleep, and an unarmed opponent shouldn’t be slaughtered by the sword. However, you aren’t stupid and don’t consider creatures such as bears or dragons to be unarmed. Also, you’re forbidden to use ranged attacks because an honorable man battles his opponents face-to-face.
- Remain ever vigilant. This means never ignoring a dishonorable deed, and always punishing those who deserve it. This doesn’t necessarily mean charging an enemy kingdom, but it does mean doing anything that you can to right the offense.
Mighty Steed (1st Level, Ex): A cavalier is practically born in the saddle, and his valiant steed is always nearby. The cavalier begins play with a heavy warhorse, or war pony for small characters. The mount gets +2 to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution, and has +1 hit point per hit die (in addition to the addition hit points from Constitution).
This mount isn't magical in any way; it's simply an exceptional example of it's species. These abilities aren't bestowed by the cavalier. Rather, the animal was superior, and the cavalier simply knows what to look for.
Strict Regimen (2nd Level, Ex): A difficult training regimen fills the morning of cavaliers. At 2nd level and every 4 levels thereafter, the cavalier can add one point to his Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution. This increase isn't a bonus; it's identical to the increase gained from levels.
Indomitable Valor (3rd Level, Ex): Cavaliers are bastions of courage and never falter in the face of doom. Cavaliers are immune to fear (magical or otherwise).
Skewer (4th Level, Ex): A lance can cause incredible damage to the enemy of a cavalier. You must declare that you're using this ability before you make your attack roll while using a lance while mounted and charging. You get a bonus to hit equal to your level divided by four. If you hit, you automatically score a critical hit.
You may use this ability once per day at 4th level, twice per day at 8th level, and so on, until 5 times per day at 20th level.
Honestly, I don't like the Strict Regimen very much. It doesn't have much in the way of flavor, but I think it's a decent translation of the 1E cavalier's ability. I could have thrown in a pretty exact "weapon of choice" ability, but that's robbing the fighter of his shtick. And again, some plain ol' plusses to hit isn't exactly exciting.
You could even make a more generic Knight class by dropping Mighty Steed, and making Skewer apply with any weapon with which the character has Weapon Focus.
Tuzenbach
First Post
Wow! Where do you come up with this stuff, Wombat? INCREDIBLE!
Two questions:
1. What's the best d20 resource out there for more classes, either core or prestige?
2. Did you ever get the 2E "Specialists and Sages" book? I did. It inspired me to actually create a Fighter/Engineer!!! He was real good at trap lore (building, finding, disarming) and he'd get xps for inventing things. Did you ever create any wierd types of classes like this, or was I the only nut? BTW, to make it even stranger, he was a Firenewt named Heckno. LoL
Two questions:
1. What's the best d20 resource out there for more classes, either core or prestige?
2. Did you ever get the 2E "Specialists and Sages" book? I did. It inspired me to actually create a Fighter/Engineer!!! He was real good at trap lore (building, finding, disarming) and he'd get xps for inventing things. Did you ever create any wierd types of classes like this, or was I the only nut? BTW, to make it even stranger, he was a Firenewt named Heckno. LoL
CombatWombat51
First Post
Tuzenbach said:
Aw, shucks
1. I have no idea. I bought the 3 core books when they came out, and the 3.5 books when they came out. I'll also be getting UA when it comes out this Friday. Other than that, I bought a mini that was some kind of wraith or invisible man with a sword. He looked really cool, and he sits on top of my monitor.
What I'm getting at is that I don't really buy sourcebooks anymore. My friends and I are happier with stuff that I make up, or we make up together, so we use those. I've got a 61 page word document with our houserules in it (index and table of contents, too! w00t!), and that's not including the DMG portion I keep to myself. I have too many mouths to feed to fork out 20 or 30 bucks for a book with a couple of ideas I'll use
However, I'm sure if you make a post asking about it, you'll get about a thousand things to choose from. AU, Midnight, OA, the new splat books, and on and on. Whoa, I'm listening to Bad Religion, and right as I typed "on and on", Greg sang "on and on for eternity". Creepy
2. Sure don't
Back then I didn't have mouths to feed, so I did spend all kinds of money on D&D books (which was also a waste, then and now). Until 3E, my buddies and I played a scary hybrid of 1E, with a dash of 2E. I think I wasted my money on 2E books just because I wasn't smart enough to save it. But the book you mentioned sounds interesting.Feel free to let me know about anything else you're interested in... I might get bored again, and it eases my D&D seperation anxiety... stupid non-San Diego
