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The Caves of Chaos: Not very good?

WheresMyD20

First Post
But if you have a premade module, it should have a purpose, a plot, and on objective. What do I need a chaotic unstructured floor plan and random encounter blocks for? Those I can throw together myself in 30 minutes. Which is why caves of chaos are a bad module, and even a bad dungeon.

This isn't a standard railroad adventure. The caves are a setting. If you need them, a purpose and objective take less than 5 minutes to come up with. The module even gives you several examples. Better yet, the players may decide what they want their objective to be. The plot is determined by the players actions, not scripted in advance.

It's only a "bad module" and "bad dungeon" if you expect the module to lay out a railroad for the players to follow.
 

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Yora

Legend
If all you want is a premade floorplan and premade encounters, then sure: This one could be one of the better ones. Though I, personally, see no reason why anyone would want that.
 


Astrosicebear

First Post
B2 is often an adventure remembered through the ages... or one easily forgotten. It very often comes down to DM and players. It was designed as an introductory adventure, a sandbox for players to explore, loot and fight. A classic D&D game of plunder and kill. But an experienced group and DM can still have alotta fun with it.

Next playtest then lets hope they bring us Temple or Return to Temple.
 


Mattachine

Adventurer
I would like to see a playtest with one of the best mid-level modules around, Pharoah.

The adventure includes desert wilderness, traps and tricks, undead, and some possibility for interaction encounters. It was originally for levels 5-7.

I hope that DDN doesn't make the mistake of focusing playtesting on low level only, though.
 

This adventure was written for B/X. In that system, elves & dwarves spoke many of the languages in use by the humanoids. Anyone with INT 13+ could easily speak one or more of them.

The language barrier wasn't an issue back in the day.
 

Viking Bastard

Adventurer
But if you have a premade module, it should have a purpose, a plot, and on objective. What do I need a chaotic unstructured floor plan and random encounter blocks for? Those I can throw together myself in 30 minutes. Which is why caves of chaos are a bad module, and even a bad dungeon.

If all you want is a premade floorplan and premade encounters, then sure: This one could be one of the better ones. Though I, personally, see no reason why anyone would want that.

I guess it simply depends on where your strengths lie. A module layered with a detailed backstory and plot is useless for me, for I can easily make that up on the fly and any premade plots are just going to get in my way. But give me some floorplans and a bucketful of premade encounters to read and all kinds of sparks go off in my head.

When reading a old school module I must fill in the blanks that are presented: "The Orc, what motivates it? The Pie, why is it there? What kind of pie is it? Does the Orc even like pie?"

And voila, a campaign is born!
 

Lwaxy

Cute but dangerous
Caves of Chaos is one of the best modules, it was back then and it is now, to me anyway :)

We are a low combat group and it fits our play style well. We made friends with the goblins and kobolds, we kinda accidentally killed half the gnoll tribe though. The rogue even convinced the goblin youths to color the clothes of their leaders red blue and purple because they were constantly fighting over what color of rug to hang in the dinner area. It's all what you make of it ;)
 

KesselZero

First Post
This baffled me at first, too, but I've done some investigating about the fact that the adventure as written just looks like a bunch of rooms with stat blocks. As a previous poster mentioned, B2 was originally part of the Basic set and intended to do most, but not all, of the prep-work for a beginning DM. Thus the gutwork of drawing rooms, placing monsters, etc. is done but the creative work of coming up with motivations, reasons, etc. isn't. This was meant to help teach beginning DMs how to design dungeons, and is sort of represented by the various adventure hooks and reaction suggestions in the 5e playtest version.

The other piece of the puzzle is to remember to think about the Caves as a living, changing environment. The idea of monsters sitting in rooms waiting to be killed is just as silly as it sounds. To give a simple example, our playtest group snuck about the hobgoblin caves, going room by room until we found some prisoners. We spent the next day taking the prisoners back to town and resting up, and when we returned the entrance to the hobgoblin caves was clearly and heavily guarded. The monsters knew somebody was attacking them, and reacted accordingly. It's always good to sprinkle adventure seeds into the dungeon to give the PCs a reason to delve it other than treasure, but the plot arises naturally from what the characters do and how the monsters react, rather than being set out clearly from the get-go.

I've heard an argument that there is an implicit "plot" in B2, that the Shrine of Evil Chaos draws monsters to it through evil magic brainwaves or whatnot, which explains why you have so many creatures living in relative harmony so near to each other, why more may come to augment or replenish their numbers, etc. Nevertheless each monster or group is individually motivated, and it's an uneasy peace at best.

Lastly-- the wizard pregen can prepare Comprehend Languages if he wants.
 

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