The Chump to God model

[Jack7]

I don't expect the market for such a thing would be particularly grand. Despite the suggestion that growing powerful is stale, I'd bet that becoming weaker with time wouldn't be terribly attractive to most players.

I'm not saying it would sell, or that I'd spend time or money trying to make it sell. But I'm saying I'll bet I could make it into an interesting campaign. Depends on how it was written and played.

But if I do some up with some particular ideas then I'll write em up and post em somewhere so you can run over em in your own mind.

I'm surprised that more therapists haven't caught on to D&D.

Or dictators.

That made me laugh...more or less.

 

[haakon1]

I pick door number three: Chump to Bad-ass.

Luke Skywalker is about right.
-Star Wars: chump
-Empire: dude
-Jedi: bad-ass

Gods are there to topple, not join.

Precisely what I was thinking . . . beat me to it.

In other words, 1st/2nd/3rd edition, from 1st level to max 12th is best, to me.

 

[Mercule]

Precisely what I was thinking . . . beat me to it.

In other words, 1st/2nd/3rd edition, from 1st level to max 12th is best, to me.

Heh. As I was typing, I was thinking about how we always stopped at "name level" in 1e.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

I don't know 'bout a whole game but that might make a real interesting campaign. Say there was a magical curse or some sort of supernatural disease causing one to lose their powers, or in game terms, to "regress in levels." (Of course you always had magic items and relics that could do that ad hoc or for short periods, but it wasn't usually continuously regressive.)

Or, just slowly become "ordinary people again," either permanently or sporadically, unless corrected. I think I'll turn that idea over in me head awhile and see if I can devise some sorta plotline.

Already been done - sort of: Advanced Dungeons & Dragons Archive: I8 Ravager of Time

 

[Nahat Anoj]

I chose "Dude to Badass" as that was the best of the two options provided, IMO. However, I think my ideal is "Dude to God."

 

[Barastrondo]

Wheel of Time? Chump to God.

Magician? Chump to God.

The various Eddings series? Chump to God.

It's a tried and true classic.

It's interesting that these are all post-D&D fantasies, though. I think only one out of three is actually inspired by roleplaying, but they're all watermarked after D&D came on the scene. The Howard and Leiber and Burroughs and Vance stuff that Gygax cited as most inspirational all pretty much feature characters that remain on an even keel power-wise.

Of course, the fantasies you mention also all more than three-book-minimum, and none of them are really evolved out of the short story format the way Conan and his pulp cohorts did. There's a serious shift from episodic adventure that goes alongside the shift from "the characters are roughly the same level of competence and their adventures are singular due to circumstances" to "each successive adventure takes place at a higher power level."

I'm kind of curious as to what made this shift in fantasy literature happen. My pet theory is that people were wanting to have their Tolkien and Moorcock fused in an unholy union: all the everyman appeal of a hobbit, but with the cataclysmic endgame of an Eternal Champion. Frodo didn't become a god, and Elric was never an everyman, but somewhere along the line people figured they wanted both. I could be wrong, of course.

 

[Dragonhelm]

Wheel of Time? Chump to God.

Magician? Chump to God.

The various Eddings series? Chump to God.

It's a tried and true classic.

Adventurers in the Dragonlance setting often come from common origins as well.

Consider an analogy, if you will, to Marvel Comics. You take someone like the god Thor, or the rich inventor Tony Stark who becomes Iron Man, and you can have a cool hero. But at the same time, they have it all.

Now, let's look at Spider-Man. Peter Parker is perhaps the first everyman hero in comic books. He begins as a teenager with all the problems a teenager faces. He's like you and me, save that he got bit by a radioactive spider.

We relate more to Spider-Man. Likewise, I think we relate more to everyman heroes. Sure, we can play the bad-ass godling cleric, or a force-of-nature druid. However, I feel that it's more rewarding for us as players when our characters start from common origins and rise to greatness, whether by accident or design.

 

[Dausuul]

Adventurers in the Dragonlance setting often come from common origins as well.

Since Dragonlance is a direct port of D&D to novel form, I don't think you can really cite it as an example of the fantasy tradition in which D&D follows. Also, the only Hero of the Lance who actually goes from "chump to god" (literally!) is Raistlin. The rest are very much on the "dude to badass" progression.

Of course, part of that is the nature of casters versus non-casters in AD&D... but even so, according to the old Dragonlance sourcebooks, most of the Heroes are statted out at 3rd level at the start of the War of the Lance adventure arc, and ~12th level in the Dragonlance campaign sourcebook (which is set after the war). That's what I would call "dude to badass." Raistlin starts at 3rd level with the rest but is 25th level in the campaign sourcebook.

 

[steenan]

I prefer the "dude to badass" progression. I like my characters to progress in skill during the campaign, but I don't feel a need of them becoming much more powerful than they were at the beginning. I want to feel competent when I start. I also want to feel that the challenges I encountered at the beginning and overcome later are important - they shouldn't be overshadowed by degrees of magnitude by later deeds.

The whole progression shouldn't be too big, but it may happen on different levels of power: it may go from a tough village blacksmith to a mercenary, from a pirate to a ruler of a small island nation or from a hero that defeats armies by himself to a deity. I also like my characters to grow "wider" instead of "higher". Becoming better at what I'm already very good at doesn't have much story potential. Learning something I had no idea about previously meshes much better with what happens in game and makes the character more interesting to me.

 

[S'mon]

Starting powerful and declining over time would be perfect for a high-power Tolkien game where the PCs played Maiar, Elves, or maybe Numenoreans. There should also be the possibility of the occasional temporary "re-awakening" of power, but the Declinist trope is very strong in LoTR.

Edit: As well as Call of Cthulu, classic Traveller PCs start powerful, then over time their abilities degrade with age.