The Complete Mage & The Complete Scoundrel

[thalmin]

Damn it, man, post a catalogue thread again!

OK, the thread is up, and here is the link.

 

[Nightfall]

Thanks Thal.

 

[X-Marks!]

Good Intentions, Weakened Inventions

I feel like I'm being spammed by bad fiction in spell descriptions that are longer than the spells themselves!

To go one step further, I feel like I'm getting spammed by "flavour text" of just about every variety out there!

I think RPG writers' greatest weaknesses is their overwhelming addiction to writing prose instead of helpful, useful gaming text. The Races books started adding mini-stories (Day in the Life) that were only minorly useful in their specificity. The Prestige Class description went from being about a page and a half long to stretching something like 6 pages now. The 3.5 MM descriptions elongated to include some helpful info, then got even more stretched in MMIII, and now looking at the MMIV Red'Arcanist pdf, they're right back where they were before 3rd Ed, if not worse. Affiliations, Religions, Guilds, Classes, Magic Items, Feats, Races, Spell Descriptions, and on, and on, and on -- everything is getting sown with extra fill.

It takes a lot less work to come up with one idea (say a prestige class or affiliation/organization) and then write 6 pages about it (often repeating the same basic concept/view again and again), than it does to fill that same page count with 2 or 3 distinct ideas.

Remember that one of 2nd Edition's great downfalls was that gaming products were getting so watered down with "flavour" text/prose/fiction they hardly contained any useful, serviceable RPG material (Dark Sun & Planescape products, as examples). I just see it heading that way again, I'm sad to say.

Forget the "fluff vs crunch" debate -- please keep my fiction separate from my source material first! If I want a novel (or short story), I'll buy that specifically.

 

[Felon]

Well, my point is that there are so many other books that could be done rather than a Complete Mage. It is all so tiresome to see what looks like th same thing over and over and over again. I would rather see the "Complete Armor" or the "Complete Equipment"

You don't want to see the same thing over and over again...so you'd rather see a retread of the Arms & Equipment Guide? :\

How about Magic of Incarnum? Weapons of Legacy? Tome of Magic? How about all the new material (including armor & equipment) in the environment books? WotC publishes fresh stuff with regularity--of course, many folks complain about introducing new content as well.

 

[green slime]

Well Ari, it has to be said, that in general I feel that 3.5 seems to be suffering from a rules/supplement bloat the like of which I've never seen before (including 2e).

I'll probably get the title, because I'm a DnD addict, but I can't possibly say I'm in the least bit excited. In fact, in the longer term, this is probably going to kill the hobby for me. Its hard to get excited about yet another "Complete" when I still have so much unread (nevermind unused) material from a huge pile of other books. IMO, WotC really needs to sit down and think a lot harder about producing fewer, high quality products.

My current frustrations are the immense page count used to describe each PrC, the "meh" factor in a lot of the recent feats (CPsi, & PHB2), and spells I can no longer even be bothered to read through. My time is limited, and I find PrC fluff excessive to the extreme.

This isn't to say that the Complete book you are working on isn't fantastic, incredible, must-have tome of RPG-ing happiness. I'm just expressing my concerns.

 

[Thanee]

I agree, it would. I imagine we'll see such a thing as one of the compiled lists on the WotC web site eventually.

That's certainly the best way to do it, as a PDF, which is constantly updated, instead of putting it in a book and having it become outdated with the next publication already.

Bye
Thanee

 

[JoeGKushner]

Well Ari, it has to be said, that in general I feel that 3.5 seems to be suffering from a rules/supplement bloat the like of which I've never seen before (including 2e).

I'll probably get the title, because I'm a DnD addict, but I can't possibly say I'm in the least bit excited. In fact, in the longer term, this is probably going to kill the hobby for me. Its hard to get excited about yet another "Complete" when I still have so much unread (nevermind unused) material from a huge pile of other books. IMO, WotC really needs to sit down and think a lot harder about producing fewer, high quality products.

My current frustrations are the immense page count used to describe each PrC, the "meh" factor in a lot of the recent feats (CPsi, & PHB2), and spells I can no longer even be bothered to read through. My time is limited, and I find PrC fluff excessive to the extreme.

This isn't to say that the Complete book you are working on isn't fantastic, incredible, must-have tome of RPG-ing happiness. I'm just expressing my concerns.

I think it's one of hte reasons why we're seeing adventures making a comeback.

Then again, just like in 2nd ed, perhaps it's only a matter of time before the "Complete Ninja" follows up on the "Complete Drow"

 

[Unkabear]

So much about the Mages and Warlocks...what about the Rogue'ish types. Complete Scoundrel is high on my list of "at least take a gander at". But then I am always out to find new angles on my roguish Char's.

 

[Tsillanabor]

Complete Scoundrel is up there with Fiendish Codex on my list of 'must buy' upcoming products. Love the rogue types.