The Complete Mage & The Complete Scoundrel

[mhacdebhandia]

When I get the time. Just got the catalog last week, but RL has gotten in the way big time. I'll try in the next couple days.

I really appreciate what you do for us here with those threads, Thalmin. You're a legend.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

I'm actually looking forward to Complete Scoundrel; Complete Mage, not so much, but only because I'm not fond of D&D spellcasting (Warlock invocations do make it more appealing, however).

However, I have to say, the 'Complete' moniker on these books is becoming almost as absurd as the 'Final' in 'Final Fantasy XII.'

 

[Belen]

It looks like Hasbro just wanted some sales that would be near the sales of the original complete books.

I love stuff by the Mouse which may even make me give this book a look, but this is just sad. We are getting even more class options. Some of you may love this, but the more that Wizards releases, the more overwhelmed I feel.

It feels like we're being spammed by crunch!

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Look, I don't mind if a book has nothing truly new (in fact the most normal crunch is also the easiest to use), but I don't like to be fooled with expressions like "takes a fresh look".

How do you know it doesn't? You won't even be able to look at the book for months. Why not judge the book when, y'know, you've actually seen it?

 

[ColonelHardisson]

It looks like Hasbro just wanted some sales that would be near the sales of the original complete books.

I love stuff by the Mouse which may even make me give this book a look, but this is just sad. We are getting even more class options. Some of you may love this, but the more that Wizards releases, the more overwhelmed I feel.

It feels like we're being spammed by crunch!

You don't have to use it. If you feel like you have enough, don't buy the book. I don't feel overwhelmed, myself, because I know that everything besides the core is optional. If something someone says or posts piques my interest about a book, I'll pick it up. Otherwise, I feel perfectly comfortable with what I have already. I don't feel like I have to buy and use any given new release.

 

[Belen]

You don't have to use it. If you feel like you have enough, don't buy the book. I don't feel overwhelmed, myself, because I know that everything besides the core is optional. If something someone says or posts piques my interest about a book, I'll pick it up. Otherwise, I feel perfectly comfortable with what I have already. I don't feel like I have to buy and use any given new release.

Well, my point is that there are so many other books that could be done rather than a Complete Mage. It is all so tiresome to see what looks like th same thing over and over and over again. I would rather see the "Complete Armor" or the "Complete Equipment" than yet another book that offers new twists on material. Hell....it's not as if we do not have enough feats and spells to create an exponentially different number of mages.

Or maybe I am just not the right type of person to be playing games any longer.

 

[JoeGKushner]

It looks like Hasbro just wanted some sales that would be near the sales of the original complete books.

I love stuff by the Mouse which may even make me give this book a look, but this is just sad. We are getting even more class options. Some of you may love this, but the more that Wizards releases, the more overwhelmed I feel.

It feels like we're being spammed by crunch!

I feel like I'm being spammed by bad fiction in spell descriptions that are longer than the spells themselves!

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Well, my point is that there are so many other books that could be done rather than a Complete Mage. It is all so tiresome to see what looks like th same thing over and over and over again. I would rather see the "Complete Armor" or the "Complete Equipment" than yet another book that offers new twists on material. Hell....it's not as if we do not have enough feats and spells to create an exponentially different number of mages.

Or maybe I am just not the right type of person to be playing games any longer.

I think 3e is such a good, flexible system, that the core rules are able to cover all manner of contingencies on their own. While that's a huge strength, it can also be a weakness, because new releases really have to break new ground to seem unique or different. Since that's actually a pretty big effort to do, material that builds upon or modifies what has come before is more attractive for a publisher.

For the most part, I think WotC has been pretty successful in this. But I see that D&D has reached a point as a brand that it either has to keep producing increasingly niche material, or, you guessed it, be reborn as a whole new edition. We've seen WotC produce material that can be used (optionally, of course) to modify the core, often in fairly extensive ways - Unearthed Arcana and Tome of Magic are good examples.

Beyond that, where else can they go? You mention "Complete Armor" or "Complete Equipment," but I'm not sure if such subjects could justify entire books of their own. Monte Cook recently wrote of how the d20 publishers hurt themselves and the d20 industry as whole by producing entire books on very "niche-y" subjects, whether an individual monster or very specific subject (such as his own "Requiem for a God"), which might have been better served by magazine articles. I know that for my own part, as a customer, my interest for a book flags the more specific its subject is. But that seems where WotC itself is headed.

 

[Belen]

I feel like I'm being spammed by bad fiction in spell descriptions that are longer than the spells themselves!

I agree with this one. I would prefer descriptions of a cool spell effect etc rather than fiction. It does not need to be more than 1 line like "twister of of blue fire."

 

[Nightfall]

Agreed,

Spell descriptions need to be long, the other stuff, not so much. Fiction in spells not needed.

In any case Complete Mage might get more than second look at by me, but we'll see.