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For me, (if I play it at all) I think Draw Steel will be for tactical skirmish games. There's too much going on for me to create stories, narratives, campaigns, role play. Just like a 3 hour, exhausting chess match with swords and spells. Basically like a crunchier Gloomhaven.
Sure you "could" have a campaign with it, but my god, it looks exhausting. It reminds me of my 4E campaign a few years ago when a fight would take more than 2 hours and everyone would be ready to go home.

Right, but are people ready to go home because it took to hours, and they only have an hour to play - or is it that the 2 hours was spent watching people do math while people looked at their phones or generally didn't have anything to do for an hour.

If people don't like combat - that's one thing; but there is a difference between being 'engaged' with any game and being disengaged. Draw Steel combat can take 2 hours, but players are often ENGAGED that entire time; so the time goes by very quickly, at least in my experience.

Which is not to say that its for everyone - but its good to understand what about games people like or don't like, and not be mislead by some terms.
 


I'm looking forward to trying out Draw Steel with my group and how the combat plays out is probably going to be what decides whether we stick with it or not.

My group is not into having a lot of combat. The 5E assumptions about the number of fights per day is way, way more minor, inconsequential fighting than they're interested in. They don't want a lot of fights, they want a lot of exploration, puzzles, overcoming obstacles - and then big, meaningful fights with consequences and danger and a memorable collection of enemies.

So although each fight in Draw Steel looks like it will take time, I think that will work well with my group, as I'm hoping each fight will have weight to match the time it takes to play out. And I'll probably hand wave away fights that are trivial in consequence, i.e. ones where there's no actual danger to the players. Will need to balance that with assumptions about how many Victories heroes bring into the big fights.

Other things I really like about Draw Steel are the Negotiation rules, which should help draw the less chatty group members into feeling like they can fully participate in negotiations. Major Negotiations look like they have the potential to be as climactic as major combats, so I've started putting some time into fleshing out ways for the players to uncover motivations and pitfalls before entering important Negotiations, so that in some situations the Negotiation itself can become the culmination of a chapter-worth of activities devoted to overcoming an NPC obstacle.

I also like that Draw Steel sets out mechanics for "montages", providing a bit of crunch while also staying reasonably free-form for player ingenuity. Some of my players will just want to smack something as part of every montage, so I can let them use their combat skills for that without running a full-fledged combat, while other players get to think of uses for the non-combat skills on their hero sheet.
 

I'm looking forward to trying out Draw Steel with my group and how the combat plays out is probably going to be what decides whether we stick with it or not.

My group is not into having a lot of combat. The 5E assumptions about the number of fights per day is way, way more minor, inconsequential fighting than they're interested in. They don't want a lot of fights, they want a lot of exploration, puzzles, overcoming obstacles - and then big, meaningful fights with consequences and danger and a memorable collection of enemies.

So although each fight in Draw Steel looks like it will take time, I think that will work well with my group, as I'm hoping each fight will have weight to match the time it takes to play out. And I'll probably hand wave away fights that are trivial in consequence, i.e. ones where there's no actual danger to the players. Will need to balance that with assumptions about how many Victories heroes bring into the big fights.

Other things I really like about Draw Steel are the Negotiation rules, which should help draw the less chatty group members into feeling like they can fully participate in negotiations. Major Negotiations look like they have the potential to be as climactic as major combats, so I've started putting some time into fleshing out ways for the players to uncover motivations and pitfalls before entering important Negotiations, so that in some situations the Negotiation itself can become the culmination of a chapter-worth of activities devoted to overcoming an NPC obstacle.

I also like that Draw Steel sets out mechanics for "montages", providing a bit of crunch while also staying reasonably free-form for player ingenuity. Some of my players will just want to smack something as part of every montage, so I can let them use their combat skills for that without running a full-fledged combat, while other players get to think of uses for the non-combat skills on their hero sheet.
Yeah, I think the negotiation and montage rules are the most interesting to me. I'm such a nut for clocks that I want to see what everyone's doing with them. Any little twists and turns in their use inevitably catches my interest.
 

Right, but are people ready to go home because it took to hours, and they only have an hour to play - or is it that the 2 hours was spent watching people do math while people looked at their phones or generally didn't have anything to do for an hour.

If people don't like combat - that's one thing; but there is a difference between being 'engaged' with any game and being disengaged. Draw Steel combat can take 2 hours, but players are often ENGAGED that entire time; so the time goes by very quickly, at least in my experience.

Which is not to say that its for everyone - but its good to understand what about games people like or don't like, and not be mislead by some terms.
Also, a combat in d&d that takes more than 2-3 rounds usually devolves into basic attacks and cantriosbecayse both sides ran out of encounters, while in Draw Steel it gains momentum and becomes more and more epic.
 

Also, a combat in d&d that takes more than 2-3 rounds usually devolves into basic attacks and cantriosbecayse both sides ran out of encounters, while in Draw Steel it gains momentum and becomes more and more epic.
Yes, I'm looking forward to seeing how that plays out in practice. The idea of both the villain and the players making bigger and bigger attacks as the fight goes on (instead of smaller and smaller attacks in 5E) sounds great, but I haven't tried it yet to see how it actually plays out.
 

Yes, I'm looking forward to seeing how that plays out in practice. The idea of both the villain and the players making bigger and bigger attacks as the fight goes on (instead of smaller and smaller attacks in 5E) sounds great, but I haven't tried it yet to see how it actually plays out.
It's what you get in most fiction, too. Bigger and bigger swings instead of smaller and smaller. I wish more games had mechanics like that.
 


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