D&D 5E The Contagion Spell

[Paraxis]

To me it is clear you suffer the effects immediately and need to save out of them, this makes the spell an enemy killer in fact a legendary monster killer as their auto save ability doesn't help prevent the stun lock for those first couple rounds.

I haven't had a player cast the spell yet, and one reason is I house ruled it to "The creature doesn't suffer the effects of the disease until it fails a saving throw against it." - This makes it still useful in combat but not an "I win" button against legendary monsters.

 

[Dausuul]

Yeah, I've gone back and forth, but in the end I think contagion should just be completely rewritten, as a plot spell rather than a combat spell. Something like this:

CONTAGION
5th-Level Necromancy
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Components: V, S, M (a black sapphire worth 1,000 gp; see below)
Duration: Until cured

When you cast this spell, the creature you touch must make a Constitution save or be afflicted with a deadly plague. The disease incubates for 24 hours, after which the victim becomes infectious. Symptoms begin after 48 hours, and include fever, coughing, and distinctive bruising under the eyes and on the lips. Upon developing symptoms and every 24 hours thereafter, the victim must make a Constitution save or have his or her maximum hit points reduced by 5. Three successful saves (not necessarily consecutive) end the disease, and the victim can regain the lost hit points normally.

Anyone who spends at least 1 minute within 15 feet of the original victim, or who touches the original victim, must make a Constitution save or become infected. The disease then follows the same course, except that secondary victims can't spread the disease further. Those who successfully save are immune to this contagion. The sapphire used as a material component becomes hot to the touch and remains so as long as there is at least one infected person. If the sapphire is destroyed, all victims recover instantly.

At the DM's option, contagion may be used to produce other diseases.

At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a higher-level spell slot, secondary victims can also spread the disease. If you use a 6th-level slot, the disease can go two "jumps" from the original victim instead of one. If you use a 7th-level slot, the disease can make three jumps. If you use an 8th-level slot, it can make five jumps. If you use a 9th-level slot, the disease can spread without limit.

 

[keterys]

Yeah, I've gone back and forth, but in the end I think contagion should just be completely rewritten, as a plot spell rather than a combat spell. Something like this:

I think you could remove the initial save.

Or reduce it to a 3rd level spell and add 2 jumps per 2 levels, with 9th unbound. I think it used to be a 3rd level spell.

 

[Dausuul]

I think you could remove the initial save.

Or reduce it to a 3rd level spell and add 2 jumps per 2 levels, with 9th unbound. I think it used to be a 3rd level spell.

Yeah, it's just a rough cut at the spell--could definitely stand some testing and tweaking.

 

[Celtavian]

Regardless of everything else going on here, this isn't really true. Just because you're afflicted with a disease does not mean you suddenly and immediately show all symptoms. In fact, I can't think of a single disease that works that way. Every one I can think of takes at least some time and a progression of worsening symptoms.

True as in realistic, yes, you are correct.

Afflicted does mean you have the disease. Absent any additional information regarding incubation time or any text indicating a delay in symptoms, it is quite clear the onset is immediate according to the spell text. You are adding things that do no exist within the spell text.

 

[Celtavian]

This is incorrect. It may be that all of the diseases listed have no onset (I did a cursory search for their analogs in the monster manual and dmg, but did not find them repeated which is _maddening_) but it most definitely does not mean you bypass the onset. It means you are afflicted by the disease.

What afflicted by the disease means _is not spelled out by the rules_. But someone who is afflicted by a disease certainly has the disease, but what stage of the disease, whether its contagious, dunno. Sure would be nice if the rules told us.

But in the meantime, any DM that rules that you have the disease mentioned, which has an onset of any time he feels like, is perfectly within his rights. As is a DM that says it happens immediately.

It's not even a bad spell if the effects don't trigger until 3 failed saves. It's just not a killer combat spells designed for PCs.

Nothing in the spell indicates anything you have listed. This is just you rattling on without any support from the spell text whatsoever. It is quite clear you have no experience with the spell and don't know what the word afflicted means.

 

[Celtavian]

My reading of the spell from the start was just what Mearls suggested, possibly because it seems broken otherwise.

I think part of the issue is thinking of this as a combat spell. I think it's more of a plot spell with limited combat application, personally.

It is broken. It needs a better fix than what Mearls suggested otherwise you make it useless.

This idea of a "plot" spell is not what you put in a PHB, maybe in the DMG. The ability to afflict a disease on someone quickly has been part of D&D for a long while. I expect this is their attempt.

It is over-powered as written. I may test it to prove it, then make the adjustments once it is apparent.

 

[Celtavian]

Hard to believe no one is utilizing this spell and can offer actual play experience using it as written. It could be not many players have reached level 9 and of that group very few play a class capable of using contagion. I'll have to use it and see how it plays out, then adjust accordingly.

 

[PnPgamer]

Hard to believe no one is utilizing this spell and can offer actual play experience using it as written. It could be not many players have reached level 9 and of that group very few play a class capable of using contagion. I'll have to use it and see how it plays out, then adjust accordingly.

If my current character dies, i promise to make a druid so i can test this thing out. Currently were doing the dragon cult adventure...

It may take a while.

 

[Celtavian]

If my current character dies, i promise to make a druid so i can test this thing out. Currently were doing the dragon cult adventure...

It may take a while.

You on the 1st module? The second one goes by fast.

I'll have it tested myself by then. My cleric is level 5. The trickery cleric is able to deliver this spell from range using Invoke Duplicity. I'll collect data and give my impressions once I use the spell. I'll refine once I determine its effectiveness.