The Crazy Craft Skill

[Shard O'Glase]

I think that by the core rules, the special material cost is supposed to be treated the same as cost of a masterwork component for creation times. (i.e. 300 gp for a weapon, 150 gp for armor.)

Am I understanding what you say correctly in that, the rule I've been using complies with the core rule mechainc anyways. We just couldn't find an aswer one way or the other and we figured things like mithral just shouldn't add a year to the creation process.

 

[AuraSeer]

The special material price is just that: the price you pay for the special raw materials. That is, if you're making mithral armor, you first need to spend money to buy some mithral ingots. That can be a large percentage of the final item's market price right there, but it doesn't use up Crafting time; you could purchase wagonloads of mithral without ever setting up a forge.

Full plate is heavy armor, so the raw materials include 9000 gp worth of mithral. But crafting something out of mithral takes only as much extra effort as crafting a masterwork item-- that is, 300 gp worth of effort at DC 20. That's what the DMG means when it says mithral items are "treated as masterwork" for purposes of creation time.

So, for that blacksmith with his six apprentices:
19 weeks for the armor itself
+ 3 weeks for the masterwork (special material) component
= 22 weeks, or about 5 months.

Jeremy, your calculation only makes sense if the blacksmith and his apprentices are also using "Craft (mining)" to find, extract, and refine the mithral by themselves. In such a case, 2.5 years may not be totally unreasonable, because you need more than 7 people to run an ore mine efficiently.

 

[Dr_Rictus]

The problem with that idea is virtually every class can come close to equalling thefighter in a fight, and some like the wizard and cleric can frequently and usually do exceed the fighter in a fight, so why are they better than the fighter at everything else still.

That would be a problem, if it were the case. It hasn't been in any of the many D&D 3e games I've played.

 

[Velenne]

Gad, people... why would you even bother to use skill points anymore, if you can just *buy* yourself a bonus that is much larger than any mere mortal is ever going to achieve?

I agree. The price seems way too low, but how else are you going to achieve those 100+ DC's in the ELH? Anyway, we'll save that discussion for another thread (there was one not too long ago) and let this one remain based on possible adjustments to the Craft skill.

 

[Velenne]

Originally posted by Caliban

special material cost is supposed to be treated the same as cost of a masterwork component for creation times

Aaahhhhh, well that solves that problem right there! 90,000 sp indeed.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Gad, people... why would you even bother to use skill points anymore, if you can just *buy* yourself a bonus that is much larger than any mere mortal is ever going to achieve?

Couple reasons:

1) Your average craftsman isn't going to be able to afford such an item anyway; and

2) It's MAGIC. Magic is supposed to be able to do outrageous things compared to good old mundane blood, sweat and tears.

Finally, there's no reason why you wouldn't do both. Min-maxing pretty much dictates that if you consider a skill worthwhile enough to buy a skill-boosting item for it, you'll also want to have as many ranks in that skill as possible. True, an item that gives +10 to Hide checks is better than 8 ranks in Hide, all other things being equal; however, 8 ranks in Hide AND such an item is best.

 

[Caliban]

Am I understanding what you say correctly in that, the rule I've been using complies with the core rule mechainc anyways.

Pretty much.

We just couldn't find an aswer one way or the other and we figured things like mithral just shouldn't add a year to the creation process.

DMG, page 243

Weapons or armors fashioned from mithral are treated as masterwork items with regard to creation times, but the masterwork quality does not affect the enhancement bonus of weapons or the armor check penalty of armor.

There is a similar statement for Adamantite on page 242.

Some believe this passage means that Admantite and Mithral items are automatically masterwork, while others believe that it simply means that you use the cost of a masterwork item (instead of the cost of the special material) when calculating the time needed to create the item.

I agree with the latter view, and that is also why I agree with the sages ruling that the armor check penalty reduction from being masterwork and from being mithral stack. (Because mithral items are not automatically masterwork, and you can choose to make them masterwork when they are created.)

 

[Velenne]

Ok I think that pretty much settles that issue.

What about the Craft skill itself? Is there a better way to do it, or should it be left as is? I'm pretty much on Caliban's House Rule's bandwagon at this point. Any other thoughts?

 

[melkoriii]

Some believe this passage means that Admantite and Mithral items are automatically masterwork, while others believe that it simply means that you use the cost of a masterwork item (instead of the cost of the special material) when calculating the time needed to create the item.

I agree with the latter view, and that is also why I agree with the sages ruling that the armor check penalty reduction from being masterwork and from being mithral stack. (Because mithral items are not automatically masterwork, and you can choose to make them masterwork when they are created.) [/B]

So let me get this strate.

To make some Non-Masterwork Mithral armor I add 90,000sp to the creation cost or 3,000sp?

Then to make Masterwork Mithral armor I add 3,000sp to the creation cost?

 

[Caliban]

So let me get this strate.

To make some Non-Masterwork Mithral armor I add 90,000sp to the creation cost or 3,000sp?

Then to make Masterwork Mithral armor I add 3,000sp to the creation cost?

Masterwork armor is only +150 gp, not +300 gp.

To make non-masterwork mithral armor you add 1,500 sp to the creation cost.

To make masterwork mithral armor you would add an additional 1,500 sp to the creation cost. (Total of + 3,000 sp).

The raw material cost would be 1/3 the normal item +1/3 the masterwork cost, + the special material cost.