The Current State of "Simple d20"?

[der_kluge]

As someone mentioned earlier... check out The Omni System. I think it might be what you are looking for.

How compatible is Omni with say, 1e D&D modules? Do things like HP and AC convert over easily enough?

Also, if the book has as many typos as that brief introduction that page, I ain't buying it.

 

[der_kluge]

I've been playing in a similar fashion for over a year now. We port in attrib boosts and feats (for PCs and NPCs) from 3.5 and that keeps my players happy. Die_Kluge and one of the other players was very suspicious of the lack of skills, but they both readily admit now that they actually like the simplicity of not having to deal w/ them. Leveling up takes like 30 seconds or so and the DM/CK never has to deal w/ skills and feat nonsense for monsters.

I think the SIEGE system is vastly misunderstood and unappreciated by those who have not spent 4 or more sessions playing with it. Any CK worth his salt has a setting and backgrounds for the PCs making the uber-detail of most skill systems a rather pointless exercise in accounting. It's a tradeoff really, but I'm just happy that my players were willing to see if it would work and it has far exceeded our expectations. We actually started playing C&C over a year ago and the compromise was "let's see how this SIEGE engine works, and if we really miss skills that badly, we'll add them." It never happened. The players found that w/ a well-developed setting and backgrounds for their characters, the PC "skill set" in C&C is actually much more robust than the "limited-by a list" skill point system.

SIEGE and Prime abilities coupled w/ backgrounds (or secondary skills) works far, far better than you would think, but you've really got to give it a try.

That's "der_kluge" to you.

I second Scadgrad on his assessment, but know that his C&C is not RAW C&C. His version adds back feats (slightly simplified), and he has a few other rules to allow for miniatures for combat (no AoO, though). Combat is very fast. Last game my fighter made 6th level, and I rolled hit points, and chose a new feat, and I was done. Last level I rolled new hit points. Very easy.

Where I think C&C suffers a bit is in the lack of a codified multi-class and dual class rules, and I think some aspects of the game could be a bit more balanced. I also don't like that the XP charts are based on a black-box calculation whereby assassins advance quickly, and wizards slowly. If they opened up the reasonings behind why the XP charts are what they are, it would be a lot better. I think a lot of the decisions internal to C&C are based solely on nostalgia, and I think it would have been a much better system if they opened up the character creation to allow for a lot more flexibility, yet maintained the simplistic nature of the combat system, it would be a great game.


To that end, if and when I ever decide to run a game, I'm seriously looking at HARP. The character creation, the openness of the races, classes, and skills, and the beauty of the magic sytem are real selling points. The combat system is really goofy though, but this latest version of the Harper's Bazaar has (at my request, I might add) a variant that is more D&D-like in its approach. It's closer now to what I really want. You might consider downloading the HARP lite from their website at http://www.harphq.com

 

[der_kluge]

bla bla bla

I should also add that it took me a while to figure out what your avatar was. I didn't know you were such a Samurai Jack fan. I have almost all the episodes recorded. After we move, I can try to dig them out for you and let you borrow them. I love SJ. I just wish they still showed it, or at least finished the damn series!

 

[The Shaman]

The main problem is that I have two players who have a severe reaction against home-brew systems. They pretty much flat-out refuse to play in one (even though there is a strong undercurrent of unhappiness with the complexity of D&D 3.5).

What do they think 3.5 is?

 

[scadgrad]

I should also add that it took me a while to figure out what your avatar was. I didn't know you were such a Samurai Jack fan. I have almost all the episodes recorded. After we move, I can try to dig them out for you and let you borrow them. I love SJ. I just wish they still showed it, or at least finished the damn series!

Ah yes, HUGE fan of SJ. Tartakovsky is a genius, At some point I must own the complete series on DVD. Must I tell you.



Humility is the first stone on the path of the Samurai.

 

[Zoatebix]

off-topic: scad.. savannah college of art and design? I have a friend who loves it there!

 

[Denaes]

BESM d20 has a great fast system... I think with charts and pictures the mechanics are like 10 pages.

Character generation is where BESM d20 really is customizable. You can point buy characters or drop in normal d20 classes or use the points to try to create your own BESM d20 balanced classes.

Spycraft 2.0 has the most streamlined skills, but it's presented in a way that makes it look really complicated, so it's not much help. It also has a ton of feats (the vast majority of them non-standard, in specific categories) and doesn't use AoO's. Unfortunatley they have rules to cover everything that could possibly happen so it's a thick book with like 80% of the rules you'll rarely ever use.

 

[Geron Raveneye]

Maybe take a look at the OGL Fantasy Light - Basic Player's Guide. It's a very simplified version of D&D, yet still fully compatible and easy to add on with stuff from the 3.5E core rules or anything else d20.

Go http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=2748 for some info.

 

[jdrakeh]

I don't think I like Core Elements so much. It has some good ideas, but I wish they gave more advice and examples about how to put different ideas together to make things work. Just a rough idea for the range of damage ratings, armor ratings, and spell DCs at different campaign power levels would have been nice.

Some people (not me) have plans to develop it into a tome akin to the 10th Anniversary Edition of Fudge, only for d20 - that is, a simple, flexible, d20 'tool-kit' system. I've been asked to proof the final project, but won't actually have a hand in the design. That said, I'm plenty excited that somebody liked my really basic freebie enough to carry on in such fashion

 

[runtime]

Sounds dumb, but what about the Basic game? It's D&D3.5 for 12 year olds....and I think it's great! I'd like the skills and feats to be a little more complex, but aside from that it's very streamlined.

I agree with Wraith Form: you should consider the D&D "Basic Game," the 3.5E version, not the old-school pre-AD&D version! The 3.5E Basic Game is streamlined but integrates pretty well into full 3.5E rules because it is a subset, not a variation, of the full 3.5E rules.