The D&D economy, how much gold do my players earn?

[MichaelSomething]

I highly recommend for a good gaming economic bit the "A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe Second Edition". I linked the second edition, though I'm still using the first edition myself.

If you want to get heavy into trade, the "A Magical Society: Silk Road" has thing like setting up caravans, price of good at source vs destination, figuring profits, and that type of thing. It's really not necessary unless you like reading such things for ideas or you figure your players will be doing a lot of trade missions. (I have players who are interested in that kind of thing, so this book helps.)

Is it me or is suggesting "A Magical Medieval Society" whenever someone has a D&D economic question a requirement now? Or a cliche'?

 

[kitsune9]

The quick, not particularly useful answer is: As much as you want to give them.

I agree with Korjik. I would start at the end of what you want to allow them to have so the focus of the campaign is your players adventuring, not running a business. But if you really want to figure out some kind of system, then start at the end (what the profit to be generated?) then work your way backward.

So here's a step-by-step process:

1. Determine the formula that you'll use. I don't know what the Middle Ages used as an accounting system, so I'll just base if off a more modern one. So here's a formula for you:

Gross Sales - Expenses = Gross Profit (Loss) - Taxes = Net Profit(Loss).

2. Net Profit / Loss. If you want to reward your players for their investment, then determine a gold amount that their Net Profit will yield and also make it a percentage of the overall Gross Sales. So, let's say that you want your players to earn 5,000 gp and you want it to represent 10% of Gross Sales which will be 50,000 gp. So now your formula is going to look like this.

Gross Sales 50,000
-Expenses ??

=Gross Profit ??
-Taxes ??

=Net Proft 5,000

3. Determine Taxes as a percentage. So this has to be arbitrary, but the taxes is taxes to the paid to the government, tithes to the Church, and any other entity that is entitled to payment, but doesn't contribute to the business. Let's set this at 25%. Now to work backward, you must take your Net Profit / 75% (1 - 25% taxes) and that equals your Gross Profit. 5000/.75 = 6,667 gp. So now we have this:

Gross Sales 50,000
-Expenses ??

= Gross Profit 6,667
-Taxes (25%) 1,667

=Net Profit 5,000

4. Figure Expenses. Expenses is easy. It's the difference between Gross Sales and Gross Profit. 50,000 - 6,667 = 43,333 gp. So what does 43,333 gp in expenses mean? It's salaries for all the miners, it's paying for guards to provide security to the mines, it's buying equipment that constantly gets worn out and needs to be replaced, it's cash bonuses to keep the miners' morale up and to keep them from pocketing whatever it is the players are mining. It's hiring alchemists (quite expensive) who will separate your precious metals from the ore in a safe / magical way. It's the hiring of assassins to kill off rival mine owners (if the players are looking at expanding). It's the hiring of prospectors to look for new veins in the area while providing security for them with the use of rangers. It's the payments of bribery to a circle of druids who are "uncomfortable" with the land being mined. And so on.

I created a spreadsheet for you so you can play with the numbers yourself. Enter the numbers in the green fields and have fun!

Happy Gaming!

View attachment Ye Olde Adventuring Mining Co..xls

 

[Argyle King]

I agree with Korjik. I would start at the end of what you want to allow them to have so the focus of the campaign is your players adventuring, not running a business. But if you really want to figure out some kind of system, then start at the end (what the profit to be generated?) then work your way backward.

So here's a step-by-step process:

1. Determine the formula that you'll use. I don't know what the Middle Ages used as an accounting system, so I'll just base if off a more modern one. So here's a formula for you:

Gross Sales - Expenses = Gross Profit (Loss) - Taxes = Net Profit(Loss).

2. Net Profit / Loss. If you want to reward your players for their investment, then determine a gold amount that their Net Profit will yield and also make it a percentage of the overall Gross Sales. So, let's say that you want your players to earn 5,000 gp and you want it to represent 10% of Gross Sales which will be 50,000 gp. So now your formula is going to look like this.

Gross Sales 50,000
-Expenses ??

=Gross Profit ??
-Taxes ??

=Net Proft 5,000

3. Determine Taxes as a percentage. So this has to be arbitrary, but the taxes is taxes to the paid to the government, tithes to the Church, and any other entity that is entitled to payment, but doesn't contribute to the business. Let's set this at 25%. Now to work backward, you must take your Net Profit / 75% (1 - 25% taxes) and that equals your Gross Profit. 5000/.75 = 6,667 gp. So now we have this:

Gross Sales 50,000
-Expenses ??

= Gross Profit 6,667
-Taxes (25%) 1,667

=Net Profit 5,000

4. Figure Expenses. Expenses is easy. It's the difference between Gross Sales and Gross Profit. 50,000 - 6,667 = 43,333 gp. So what does 43,333 gp in expenses mean? It's salaries for all the miners, it's paying for guards to provide security to the mines, it's buying equipment that constantly gets worn out and needs to be replaced, it's cash bonuses to keep the miners' morale up and to keep them from pocketing whatever it is the players are mining. It's hiring alchemists (quite expensive) who will separate your precious metals from the ore in a safe / magical way. It's the hiring of assassins to kill off rival mine owners (if the players are looking at expanding). It's the hiring of prospectors to look for new veins in the area while providing security for them with the use of rangers. It's the payments of bribery to a circle of druids who are "uncomfortable" with the land being mined. And so on.

I created a spreadsheet for you so you can play with the numbers yourself. Enter the numbers in the green fields and have fun!

Happy Gaming!

View attachment 46904

If a player wanted to cut costs by just drawing a magic circle around the perimeter of the mine instead of paying out the wahzoo for protection, would that be allowed?

43k seems like a lot compared to just buying a few magic items and using a few rituals.

 

[kitsune9]

If a player wanted to cut costs by just drawing a magic circle around the perimeter of the mine instead of paying out the wahzoo for protection, would that be allowed?

43k seems like a lot compared to just buying a few magic items and using a few rituals.

Sure! The expenditures are pretty arbitrary for the DM and he can add as much or take out as much as he wants. However, the expenses can also be justified at such a high cost by working in an expense spreadsheet and working backward. However, the question is, what spell can be cast to keep trespassers out and how long will it last (i.e. how often will the wizard have to come over and cast it). Obviously, magic circles could involve gp material components too which is part of the cost of the spell/ritual to be performed.

If one wants to work up a job costing worksheet to come up with the expenses to justify the costs, that's easy to do. I may look into doing a spreadsheet up for that as well.

 

[Saeviomagy]

You don't really want the PCs to invest in a business and get a lot more or less out of it than they put in, because the game has been balanced with specific treasure levels in mind.

Likewise you don't want the PCs who indulge in some world-building to end up out of pocket, because again - balance. You're punishing players for becoming involved in the world.

And, at the same time, if the PCs have a business, at least SOME table time should be devoted to it and that means adventures. Which is a convenient way to give them some 'profits' out of their business without upsetting the applecart.


All of this assumes, of course, that you're playing a version of D&D from roughly 3rd to 4th edition, and you run the magic item economy and xp by the book. If you don't, then I can't really answer the question without getting you to re-do your entire economy and xp system.

 

[SiderisAnon]

Is it me or is suggesting "A Magical Medieval Society" whenever someone has a D&D economic question a requirement now? Or a cliche'?

I don't see suggesting those books as any different than suggesting a particular monster book when someone wants "a group of enemies that can do X," or suggesting "Elements of Magic" if they ask for a point-based magic system for D&D. The "A Magical Medieval Society" books are are an excellent system for putting together economic numbers for anything from land the players hold on up to entire kingdoms. They're suggested that frequently because the people who like the books think they're that good. They're not perfect for everybody, but no gaming book is.

 

[pemerton]

Is it me or is suggesting "A Magical Medieval Society" whenever someone has a D&D economic question a requirement now?

I don't know, but after reading the OP I was going to suggest it, until I noticed that somebody else had.