The d30 system

[Steven McRownt]

I knew that my idea provoked attack of opportunity. It was his job, afterall. I wanted to point out that there is no solution apart from changin the mechanics from the beginning: a different game, no more no less.

Steven McRownt

 

[Crothian]

I knew that my idea provoked attack of opportunity. It was his job, afterall. I wanted to point out that there is no solution apart from changin the mechanics from the beginning: a different game, no more no less.

Steven McRownt

Yes. that is what I originally meant. I wouldn't sit down in the middle of a campaign and tell everyone that we are switching to a different system, no matter how close that system is to the original one. Someone mentioned it in another thread, so I figured I bring the discusion to life. It has been more popluliar then I imagined, and more people are not willing to pull off their blinders to see it for what it is, an idea.

 

[CRGreathouse]

So, we get a possible range of outcomes of 6-25 versus 11-68, rather than the standard 36-55 versus 68 (or 59-79)--I'll let someone else figure the odds .

That sounds like a challenge.

OK, after some serious number crunching: 1.49%

 

[Thorvald Kviksverd]

That sounds like a challenge.

OK, after some serious number crunching: 1.49%

Yoy're a better man than I am Gunga...err...CRGreathouse!

Really, only 1.49% for all that extra work. I was hoping it would work out to something more than 5%.

Oh well, so much for that idea--back to the drawing board...

 

[Al]

The multiple d20 system is even worse (IMO) than the d30 system. I cite: Skill Checks and Ability Checks.

In RL, randomness is less of an element in certain factors than others.

Let us apply the 35 v 68 argument, albeit scaled down to -3 v 30. Now, let us take Knowledge (Mathematics). Using Crothian's number-crunching, we estimate that if Stephen Hawking (20odd ranks+2skill focus +7/8Int mod=+30) were to try to solve a problem at the same time as 100 profoundly mentally retarded individuals working separately, at least 1 should solve it quicker than he. Strange, no?

Or here's a better one: Grapple Checks. Imagine a frog (Tiny, Str 1) vs a Polar Bear (Huge, Str 27). The difference is (16size+13strength=29). Without number crunching, we can quickly see that the difference is less than 33 and hence there is a greater than 1.49% chance of the frog winning. If we lined up 100 frogs and they wrestled 100 polar bears, can you really imagine a single frog winning?

Randomness is all well and good. With regard to saves and attack rolls (where there really is a substantial random element) the auto-hit/auto-miss element takes care of extremes. The d20 system allows a fair amount of randomness to compensate from the big modifiers (a +10 in d20 is very strong, a +10 in 3d6 is virtually insurmountable) that DnD uses. d30 diminishes these modifiers by a factor of 1.5, and multiple d20s do so as well (though I'm not sure by what factor). If an alternate system is to be used, the entire game needs to be overhauled: simply shunting DCs and upping the dice is not good enough. By all means convert to d30, but it should be true d30, and not a d20/d30 hotchpotch.

 

[frankthedm]

The topic of high-level campaigns being very hard to manage has been brought up multiple times. Everything has to be tailored to the party's abilities, if you don't want things to be a complete walkover (for either side). So far, I haven't seen anything that makes me think that Epic-level play will be any different -- in fact, it's probably going to be worse.

Not like it will all be Will Saves or Die, Stat drainings and Melee attacks as touch attacks...

 

[Dog Moon]

I for one welcome our new d30 overlords!

 

[Crothian]

My guess is this was dead and buried for a reason.......

 

[Dog Moon]

Well, the problem with things being dead and buried is that they can be dug up again.

 

[Stalker0]

If the mechanic evolves to the point where the dice become irrelevant, there's a problem with the mechanic.

When you boil down the basics of dnd, you get a basic stastical model. And like any model, you stretch it too far, and its going to break down.

Dnd does a pretty decent job of modeling characters as weak as a mouse to godlike creatures of power...but you cannot expect a model that covers such a wide field to handle everything in the middle perfectly.

The d30 has benefits and drawbacks. It helps at high level play in taking out the random factor but greatly increases the randomness at lower levels. Increasing randomness tends to hurt PCs more than NPCs, potentially making combat more lethal for PCs at low levels.