The Dark Eight!

[The Serge]

Hi the Serge mate!



But remember we are not in 1st or 2nd Ed anymore.

Read your post. Like all the stuff you've written/proposed, it's clear and concise and exhibits your dedication to the concepts of 1ed. However, as you probably already expect, I think they're all too weak.

You, like me, agree that the Demon Princes and Lords of the Nine should be ranked as gods. Where we seem to disagree is at what level of power. I believe they should run the gamut of Overgod to Hero-Deity, while you tend to be far more conservative and intent on maintaining what 1ed posited. You are fortunate in that most people probably agree with your position.

If you're ever interested, I'd be happy to share my "history of Hell" stuff. It's not complete, primarily because I'm waiting to see the BoVD, but it would be nice to receive some constructive feedback from someone else interested in the same subject matter (although my friends are into D&D and myth, they aren't all that into the Outer Planes or the beings that rule them).

Anyway, could you e-mail me that link to purchase Gygax's Gord stuff?

Soon: Furcas, Minister of Mortal Relations!

 

[The Serge]

26th level is 2.5 million

See page 23 at the bottom of the ELH

THANKS!!!! I have some stuff to change for a number of Epic Level characters I created (not to mention Dagos).

 

[Crothian]

THANKS!!!! I have some stuff to change for a number of Epic Level characters I created (not to mention Dagos).

Anything else you need, just ask.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Ooops.

Hi the Serge mate!

Before I reply to specific points can I just say I initially made a mess of Dagos Challenge Rating since I didn't originally notice his 15 Fighter Levels.

He should actually be CR31 (CR32 with the Halberd of the Pit).

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Crothian mate!

Anything else you need, just ask.

What about the wealth for 50th-level PCs?

I would say 12,500,000 GP - however I think WotC use a different method to me; and theirs ends up a lot higher, am I right?

 

[Crothian]

Hi Crothian mate!



What about the wealth for 50th-level PCs?

I would say 12,500,000 GP - however I think WotC use a different method to me; and theirs ends up a lot higher, am I right?

There is no actual pattern and it only goes up to 40th level. THis is my guess how 41-50 would look, using a pattern that is close to how they have done it

41 15,000,000
42 16.500,000
43 18,000,000
44 19,600,000
45 21,200,000
46 22,900,000
47 24,600,000
48 26,400,000
49 28,200,000
50 30,100,000

That's close to how they do it, I think. A little higher then you'd guess. The also recommend that you have no single item worth more then 25% of total wealth and no more then 3 worth over 10%. And the most important piece of info: "Of course, this doesn't apply to characters who reach that level through normal play."

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello again mate!

Read your post. Like all the stuff you've written/proposed, it's clear and concise

Thanks mate!

and exhibits your dedication to the concepts of 1ed.

I always go for the concepts that make the most sense - which in this case is invariably 1st Ed. After which generally Gary Gygax conjecture is among the most useful.

Incidently mate did you know that just before the problems at TSR forced Gary out he was about to rework all the entities of the Outer Planes (Orcus, Asmodeus etc.)!? Its annoying to think of it now; but back then Gary was on the verge of writing his own version of the Book of Vile Darkness it seems...

Can you just imagine if Gary had been able to follow through with his plans; what a book that would have been...

However, as you probably already expect, I think they're all too weak.

I don't see how you can draw that conclusion philosophically (though I think I understand what you mean)

You, like me, agree that the Demon Princes and Lords of the Nine should be ranked as gods.

Absolutely. They are cosmic powers, which, even if you presume they have fewer worshippers than their divine peers should be considered deities by the very fact that all power is relative.

Where we seem to disagree is at what level of power. I believe they should run the gamut of Overgod to Hero-Deity, while you tend to be far more conservative and intent on maintaining what 1ed posited.

Not necessarily.

I believe there are Abyssal and Hellish entities up to Overgod level of power - however it is clear that the Demogorgon and Asmodeus we are familiar with are Lesser Gods.

I would theorise that Asmodeus is almost certainly the Avatar of a more powerful being.

In fact regarding Asmodeus (49 HD/DR 8 Lesser God), I would currently decree that he is the Avatar of Lucifer (98 HD/ DR 18 Greater God); who in turn is the Avatar of Ahriman (196 HD/DR 28 Overgod).

You are fortunate in that most people probably agree with your position.

I like to think I explain my reasoning well..?

If you're ever interested, I'd be happy to share my "history of Hell" stuff.

If you have posted it on the WotC boards before (?) I am sure I have already read it.

It's not complete, primarily because I'm waiting to see the BoVD, but it would be nice to receive some constructive feedback from someone else interested in the same subject matter (although my friends are into D&D and myth, they aren't all that into the Outer Planes or the beings that rule them).

Feel free to post it here and I will be more than happy to comment on it!

Anyway, could you e-mail me that link to purchase Gygax's Gord stuff?

Sure - you won't be disappointed mate! Trust me!

In fact I just checked ebay and someone is selling the COMPLETE SET of Gord the Rogue novels!

Are you an experienced ebayer Serge mate? If not I can give you a few tips - trust me, you want to win this auction!!!

I'll email you with all the details.

Soon: Furcas, Minister of Mortal Relations!

Isn't Furcas in Legions of Hell?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Serge mate - I can't email you because you don't have that option open either on ENWorld or at the WotC Message Boards.

My email address is:

agooddesigner@hotmail.com

Or you can Email me via the buttons on this page (at the bottom of this post).

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello again mate - thanks for the quick reply.

There is no actual pattern and it only goes up to 40th level. THis is my guess how 41-50 would look, using a pattern that is close to how they have done it

41 15,000,000
42 16.500,000
43 18,000,000
44 19,600,000
45 21,200,000
46 22,900,000
47 24,600,000
48 26,400,000
49 28,200,000
50 30,100,000

That's close to how they do it, I think. A little higher then you'd guess. The also recommend that you have no single item worth more then 25% of total wealth and no more then 3 worth over 10%. And the most important piece of info: "Of course, this doesn't apply to characters who reach that level through normal play."

Actually that wealth table doesn't seem as bad as I remember it was (in the Preview at Gencon 2 years ago).

What do they give for just 25th; 30th and 40th-level?

 

[Crothian]

Hello again mate - thanks for the quick reply.

It's another boring night here in the states, so not much else to do.

Actually that wealth table doesn't seem as bad as I remember it was (in the Preview at Gencon 2 years ago).

What do they give for just 25th; 30th and 40th-level?

25 2,100,000
30 4,300,000
35 7,900,000
40 13,600,000