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The Deed of Paksenarrion - who wrote it?

Until I saw this thread I was still convinced that there was another books called "The Deeds of Pak" but I would have spelt it Packsinerion.

"The Deeds of Packsinerion"

In nearly every permutation this term does not generate any hits on Google or Amazon. I just did a seach. Wow. I expected a google hit at least.

Fast Learner, you just overestimate our ability to spell. Just cause I got a web-page and spend all my time in a forum does not mean I should know how to spell. :D I know I don't overestimate my ability.
 

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*casts Greater Threadcromancy*

My wife and I are listening to the three books of The Deed of Paksenarrion now. Is it my imagination, or -- I'm about a third of the way through Book 2 -- is the village a direct rip of the Village of Hommlet, complete with druidic and Cuthbert-style sects, a mysterious stranger at the inn, bandits outside of town, ruins nearby, and the like.

Elizabeth Moon references the D&D paladin, but doesn't give credit to other AD&D sources -- I'm wondering if her comments on the matter are entirely forthcoming:

Wikipedia said:
Source material, as well as inspiration, for the Paksenarrion books might be of interest to some. The various legal systems are taken from the following: F. S. Lear's Treason in Roman and Germanic Law (specifically for the dwarf and gnome races), K. F. Drew's The Lombard Laws and The Burgundian Code, and other sources on medieval law, including a difficult-to-find translation of the Visigothic Code by A. Wilhelmsen. The development of the Code of Gird derives from the development of "barbarian" legal codes adapting Roman Law, shifts in English law during and after the Norman Conquest, and the development of "human rights-based" changes in law in and following the Enlightenment. Different city-states and nation-states were given different "balances" of the source material. Military history sources for both military science and military psychology included Herodotus, Xenophon, Thucydides, Caesar, and other classical sources, Conan Doyle's novel The White Company, Tuchman's A Distant Mirror, Sherman's Memoirs, and many others. Village life and crafts, in outline and detail, are taken from multiple sources on medieval/early Renaissance crafts and life, including the Surtees Society's collection of historical sources for that period. Further influences on the social and political aspects came from cultural anthropology sources. Historical sources suggesting the development of a paladin character ranged from Xenophon and Caesar (on the military side) and Plato, Aristotle, and Plutarch (for both military and general character consideration) to the "Chanson de Roland" and the Grail legends, with side journeys into other cultures (Scandinavian, Amerindian, Islamic). The history of Christianity and especially the incorporation of local heroes into "saint" roles (Joan of Arc in France, others in many other Catholic countries) provided historical background for development of Paksenarrion, Gird, and other hero-saints in that fictional universe.

The inspiration for "doing a paladin right" was the definition of paladin outlined in the D&D game; the specific character of Paksenarrion derived from historical figures (including Joan of Arc) and a mix of individuals known to the author. The specific character of Gird-farmer had roots in historical and fictional accounts of peasant/slave/worker uprisings; Gird-legend shared characteristics of several legendary (mythical and fictional) folk and religious heroes.

Questions explored in the books include the nature of the military mind, the character of the good soldier and the good commander, the essential characteristics of a hero and a paladin, the potential conflicts between what it takes to be a good soldier and what it takes to be a great hero, relationship between a paladin and his/her co-religionists (clergy, laity) and between a paladin and those not of the same belief, the source of a paladin's "commission" (e.g., who decides that someone is a paladin? how is that marked?), the essential characteristics of a hero-saint, the internal characteristics and outward influences that shape a hero-saint's actions and effects, the ways that subsequent generations redefine the meaning of earlier events and how that interpretation influences their actions.

—Elizabeth Moon, Wikipedia post[3]
 

*casts Greater Threadcromancy*

My wife and I are listening to the three books of The Deed of Paksenarrion now. Is it my imagination, or -- I'm about a third of the way through Book 2 -- is the village a direct rip of the Village of Hommlet, complete with druidic and Cuthbert-style sects, a mysterious stranger at the inn, bandits outside of town, ruins nearby, and the like.

Elizabeth Moon references the D&D paladin, but doesn't give credit to other AD&D sources -- I'm wondering if her comments on the matter are entirely forthcoming:
Yes, it is Hommlet. At least part of the series is based on a D&D campaign that she was part of. I suspect that the quote was ment for those who want a more literate 'justification' for her work, and she was/is big on historical research. But don't quote me on that! :D
 

Mind you, it isn't as if Hommlet is all that original. The "stranger in the tavern" can be seen in Tolkien, the friction between religious sects comes out of British (an other nations') history. "Ruins near the town" is pretty much required in any story you want the characters to explore ruins (and is based on pretty much anywhere that used to be Roman territory, anyway), and bandits kind of *have* to be near towns - it isn't like deer have anything worth stealing!
 

Mind you, it isn't as if Hommlet is all that original. The "stranger in the tavern" can be seen in Tolkien, the friction between religious sects comes out of British (an other nations') history. "Ruins near the town" is pretty much required in any story you want the characters to explore ruins (and is based on pretty much anywhere that used to be Roman territory, anyway), and bandits kind of *have* to be near towns - it isn't like deer have anything worth stealing!

True ... but how many of those "ruins near town" have giant frogs in the moat, bandits on the first floor, an ogre eating prisoners down in the dungeon, and a spider-god priest as the big-bad behind it all? :erm:
 

True ... but how many of those "ruins near town" have giant frogs in the moat, bandits on the first floor, an ogre eating prisoners down in the dungeon, and a spider-god priest as the big-bad behind it all? :erm:

I don't have my copy at hand, but I don't remember her fighting frogs :p

I wasn't trying to say that she didn't borrow from Hommlet, but that the important elements of Hommlet are iconic to begin with. Except the frogs. The frogs are not iconic. :)

Ultimately - Did TSR mind? If not, why should we?
 

I don't have my copy at hand, but I don't remember her fighting frogs :p

She didn't. The captured bandit leader made reference to them.

I don't mind her copying one of Gygax's iconic adventures, though I'm bothered a bit by the intellectual dishonesty of not at least giving a little credit.

Doesn't spoil my enjoyment of the book, though. I find Paks a pretty convincing example of a paladin who used INT as her dump stat. :p
 

I find Paks a pretty convincing example of a paladin who used INT as her dump stat. :p

Lol.
This was pretty much my impression as well. She seemed rather simpleminded at times. Had great intuition though which goes well with a decent wisdom.

I always thought that this series was the best depiction of a paladin in any fantasy series I've ever read.
 

Until I saw this thread I was still convinced that there was another books called "The Deeds of Pak" but I would have spelt it Packsinerion.

"The Deeds of Packsinerion"

In nearly every permutation this term does not generate any hits on Google or Amazon. I just did a seach. Wow. I expected a google hit at least.

Fast Learner, you just overestimate our ability to spell. Just cause I got a web-page and spend all my time in a forum does not mean I should know how to spell. :D I know I don't overestimate my ability.

except that the OP had it spelled right in the title. Which should have led to the OP doing their own initial search which would have suceeded, as FL indicated.

I think FL sensed a pet peeve that some people will hop on a computer to hit a forum to ask for an answer that was readily available to them if they hopped on the computer and typed fewer keystrokes into Google.com instead.

Now I suppose we might have missed out on the scintilating conversation about how the series references a D&D module, but that was a side effect of everybody else knowing the subject, and not the OP's initial request.
 

Until I saw this thread I was still convinced that there was another books called "The Deeds of Pak" but I would have spelt it Packsinerion.
"The Deeds of Packsinerion"
In nearly every permutation this term does not generate any hits on Google or Amazon. I just did a seach. Wow. I expected a google hit at least.

Proof that Google is improving. "The Deeds of Packsinerion" now corrects to "Paksennarion"

Searching "The Deeds" gets "The Deeds of Paksennarion" under "related searches.
 

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