The Devil's in the Details: Slavicsek reveals the Pit Fiend in all its glory

[Shroomy]

See, to me this entire thing seems very chaotic and not very like devils at all. I guess I have too much of a pre-4e mindset to embrace these new "improved" pit fiends and their weird tactics.

EDIT: I just realized that in some posts I've even been saying "balor" instead of pit fiend. In my mind, the new pit fiend just seems so demonic instead of devilish.

The pit fiend can now force people around the battle field via teleportation or compulsion, and it can get them to involuntarily end their existence at its whim. Its the ultimate expression of an evil leader who has little or no regard for his underlings.

One question, what is the difference between the 4e pit fiend causing some cannon fodder to explode for damage or the 3.5e pit fiend sending some relatively low CR devils on a one-round suicide mission against 20th level PCs?

 

[helium3]

For those who argue the pit fiend became more predictable, I share your pain but I think the KISS principle is more important. Also the variety of Pit fiends encounter will also depend on his teammates and the tactical interaction between them.

*nod*

If the rules support a great deal of flexibility in the sorts of things I can team the Pit Fiend up with this will go a long way towards fixing this problem. Something else that would help would be if it were fairly obvious how I could modify the sorts of creatures that the Pit Fiend can summon.

The only part I don't understand right now, and maybe this will be clarified by a future preview or in the Monster Manual, is what I do if I want the party to face off against a single pit fiend in the traditional "you've defeated my minions and now you must deal with me" sense.

That's sort of implied in the flavor of the preview and also likely the genesis of "Irresistible Command", but isn't the Pit Fiend technically no more powerful than any of the other creatures he's teamed up with in the encounter?

 

[catsclaw227]

Geez.... I just waded through 15 pages of this stuff.

In regards to the Irresistible Command, It tells us the explosion destroys the allied devil, but what happens to an immortal devil when he is destroyed. It is possible this is only a temporary inconvenience to the devils.

This is my thought as well. If a devil is immortal, it's not a big deal if it goes up in a fiery explosion. It may be a glorious sacrifice to their Pit Fiend overlord.

So, it's possible that the Irresistable Command enables or activates a death throe ability of a devil. The Pit Fiend then hurtles them to their demise, and the devil goes up in a blaze of glory for thier fiendish master.

I imagine this could be a desireable thing. They do this enough times, and they can elevate in stature. "You've served me well, imp. Go now to remake yourself and join my Barbazu army." Slide.... boom. Imp is now promoted to Bearded Devil.

 

[helium3]

The pit fiend can now force people around the battle field via teleportation or compulsion, and it can get them to involuntarily end their existence at its whim. Its the ultimate expression of an evil leader who has little or no regard for his underlings.

One question, what is the difference between the 4e pit fiend causing some cannon fodder to explode for damage or the 3.5e pit fiend sending some relatively low CR devils on a one-round suicide mission against 20th level PCs?

Well sure, if the Infernal Summons could be recharged and had an option for very low level monsters that have no chance of hurting the PC's. It's difficult to tell if this is what the "eight legion devil legionnaires" option is without knowing more about them.

 

[Dragonblade]

If I were you, I wouldn't waste time trying to figure out WHY people have a problem with this (to me, ridiculous) combat tactic. People obviously do have a problem with it, and that's what matters.

No, a few people on EN World have a problem with it. But a few people on EN World always seem to have a problem with everything involving 4e.

The exploding minion tactic is fine. I also think its interesting in a way that simply sending low level devils at the PCs is not. Like someone posted earlier, sending minions forth to blow themselves up is much better than summoning some minor devil the PCs will simply kill in a round anyway. It also drives home the fanatical and evil nature of devils in general.

 

[catsclaw227]

For those who argue the pit fiend became more predictable, I share your pain but I think the KISS principle is more important. Also the variety of Pit fiends encounter will also depend on his teammates and the tactical interaction between them.

Agreed.

We are only looking at 2/5's of an encounter! There may be another Pit Fiend, and a 26th level single (1:1) monster (I forgot the 4e descriptor for this) or possibly 2 or more 26th level regulars (like beefed up Ice Devils) and a single 25th level wizard who's soul has been sold to this pit fiend.

In these cases, the Pit Fiend encounter becomes VERY unpredictable.

 

[Shroomy]

Well sure, if the Infernal Summons could be recharged and had an option for very low level monsters that have no chance of hurting the PC's. It's difficult to tell if this is what the "eight legion devil legionnaires" option is without knowing more about them.

I totally agree with you here. How good is a 21st level monster versus 26th level PCs? If they can only do around 25 points of damage per round and will die in 1-2 rounds anyways, and the pit fiend has 7 more minions to work with, blowing one up may not be that bad of an idea.

 

[Shroomy]

Agreed.

We are only looking at 2/5's of an encounter! There may be another Pit Fiend, and a 26th level single (1:1) monster (I forgot the 4e descriptor for this) or possibly 2 or more 26th level regulars (like beefed up Ice Devils) and a single 25th level wizard who's soul has been sold to this pit fiend.

In these cases, the Pit Fiend encounter becomes VERY unpredictable.

I'm salivating at the idea of adding synergistic classes like warlord to the pit fiend!

 

[Kunimatyu]

I totally agree with you here. How good is a 21st level monster versus 26th level PCs? If they can only do around 25 points of damage per round and will die in 1-2 rounds anyways, and the pit fiend has 7 more minions to work with, blowing one up may not be that bad of an idea.

Legion Devils(in FC2) don't work that way -- they have a communal pool of hitpoints, and to kill one you have to kill them all. Functionally, it's a super-monster that just happens to have 8 actions instead of one.

IMO, Legion Devils were the best thing to come out of FC2 -- they're the first devil that actually works like a devil should, and I'm very happy to see the Pit Fiend using advanced versions of them.

 

[Shroomy]

Legion Devils(in FC2) don't work that way -- they have a communal pool of hitpoints, and to kill one you have to kill them all. Functionally, it's a super-monster that just happens to have 8 actions instead of one.

IMO, Legion Devils were the best thing to come out of FC2 -- they're the first devil that actually works like a devil should, and I'm very happy to see the Pit Fiend using advanced versions of them.

I'm at my fiancee's house, so when I go home tonight, I will have to break out my copy of the FC2 and read up on these things.