The Devil's in the Details: Slavicsek reveals the Pit Fiend in all its glory

It seems to be there will be several ways you can customize monsters in 4e. Note that I'm not using hypothetical language below because it makes for clumsy writing. I don't have any special knowledge of the actual system.

1) The DM uses the guidelines in the DMG or MM and adjusts the numbers and special abilities as seen fit. The guidelines recommend the range of values for a type of monster (e.g. 9th level elite bruiser) and its recommended that you fiddle with them within that range. There will be a section that gives guidance on what kind of special abilities (movement, attacks, defenses and miscellaneous) are appropriate for an opponent of that level. There will be discussions on what kind of power builds are problematic. The advantages are obvious: speed of design and no built-in restrictions that cause the final result to drift away from the DM's concept. It also will presumably grant more time deciding on the more memorable special abilities and less time calculating things like skill points and making sure you've got the exact right number of feats.

2) The DM uses the Monster Manual examples as a starting point and adds class levels to the monster. This should be possible as it is in 3e, assuming that class levels are primarily additive in nature. The issues with this are manifold: the class levels in the PH advance statistics in many ways beyond class abilities, so you will be adding hit dice, attack bonuses, skills, feats, talents and many other features. It also requires a fair amount of work, about the same as in 3e. This will also result in monsters with high starting base levels to be problematic to add class levels to, since they already have large built in values to be added to. It probably won't be *hard* to add 10 levels of cleric onto a 10th level Giant, but you're going to get a result that won't be anywhere near 10th level in challenge.

3) The DM uses the Monster Manual and works to "trade in" monster levels for class levels. The process would involve recalculating all of the appropriate stats for the monster with some lower level (consulting the guideline tables). So you might decide to recalculate the 10th level giant as a 1st level opponent. Then you go about the process in step 2 of adding class levels as appropriate. So you would end up roughly with a 1st level giant/10th level cleric. This will be even more effort than option 2 (it would be even more so if you tried the same thing in 3e by substracting hit dice and all of the abilities related to those hit dice).

4) If the monster has the right type and level of ability, you can simply swap it one for one with another option. So if a monster has an appropriate feat, you could trade it in for a Cleric trading feat. However, this depends on that monster having as many things to trade as you want to add, which is probably unlikely if you want to add full class abilities.

In the end, I suspect that option 1 is still the best option. The difficulty is that unless we restrict hit dice (for previous editions) or monster levels (in 4e) to closely match the levels in the PC generation process (which will greatly complilcate the creation of all future monsters), trading out levels is unlikely to do a good job of resulting a good final result. For myself, the question is a pragmatic one: how much result do I get for how much effort. If we look at the above methods, I feel reasonably confident that for most monster builds, the difference in play between using option 1 and the other options will be small. And, frankly, I think most of those differences will be detrimental to the final result (unneeded options bloating the stat block, accidental synergies leading to numbers that are outside the reasonable challenge range and such).
 
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I like the new Pit Fiend. It could use a few more options for variety but the abilities given are appropriate.

On Irresistible Command: The Pit Fiend can summon a cadre of fanatically loyal devils to serve him like a diabolical secret service. Instead of taking a bullet for him, at his command, they run screaming, heedless of attacks against them (slide: movement with no Opp. Attks in any direction) and sacrifice themselves in an explosion of hellfire. It seems like a very regimented loyal lawful evil thing to do. 'Yes my Lord Pazuzu! At once! <boom>'

On low damage per round: I have some concerns with this. From other previews level 26 PCs seem to be doing more damage individually than this guy. The minions add to the damage but I will need to see the rest of the rule set to judge.

The stat block looks lean and mean. It should be a breeze to use with only a little prep.
 

grimslade said:
On low damage per round: I have some concerns with this. From other previews level 26 PCs seem to be doing more damage individually than this guy. The minions add to the damage but I will need to see the rest of the rule set to judge.

Keep in mind that monsters typically have higher hit points but lower damage output than comparable PCs. I doubt a 26th-level PC will have anywhere near 350 hit points.
 

Dausuul said:
Keep in mind that monsters typically have higher hit points but lower damage output than comparable PCs. I doubt a 26th-level PC will have anywhere near 350 hit points.

Unless they plan to do something funky to classes, right now it's entirely possible that a 26th level epic Fighter could have more than 350 HP.

That's assuming the fighter has rolled 10 HP a level and has an 18 Constitution:

260 HP base
104 w/+4 Con bonus across 26 levels
Heck, that's not including Toughness as the Fighter bonus feat over several levels.
 

Moniker said:
Unless they plan to do something funky to classes, right now it's entirely possible that a 26th level epic Fighter could have more than 350 HP.

That's assuming the fighter has rolled 10 HP a level and has an 18 Constitution:

260 HP base
104 w/+4 Con bonus across 26 levels
Heck, that's not including Toughness as the Fighter bonus feat over several levels.
Okay, what if we don't assume the fighter rolls 10 hp per level, since it is incredibly unlikely to do so for 25 levels (max at 1st)?
 

Moniker said:
Unless they plan to do something funky to classes, right now it's entirely possible that a 26th level epic Fighter could have more than 350 HP.

That's assuming the fighter has rolled 10 HP a level and has an 18 Constitution:

260 HP base
104 w/+4 Con bonus across 26 levels
Heck, that's not including Toughness as the Fighter bonus feat over several levels.
I'm going out on a limb, but I'm betting rolled HP are going away. Still, I'm betting a fighter at around that level is going to have 200-250ish HP. Considering that the fighter's going to have to deal with the Pit Fiend's aura, 8 summoned friends, and his three other lvl 26 bodyguards, I'm betting he's going to need them.
 

Moniker said:
Unless they plan to do something funky to classes, right now it's entirely possible that a 26th level epic Fighter could have more than 350 HP.

That's assuming the fighter has rolled 10 HP a level and has an 18 Constitution:

260 HP base
104 w/+4 Con bonus across 26 levels
Heck, that's not including Toughness as the Fighter bonus feat over several levels.
If the new 4e DDM stat cards are anything to go by, classes start with high hit points, but gain only a middling amount per level after that (Fighters seem to gain about ~5 HP/level after 1st). They are quite a bit less than 3e at higher levels, and more compressed between the classes.
 

grimslade said:
Instead of taking a bullet for him, at his command, they run screaming, heedless of attacks against them (slide: movement with no Opp. Attks in any direction) and sacrifice themselves in an explosion of hellfire. It seems like a very regimented loyal lawful evil thing to do. 'Yes my Lord Pazuzu! At once! <boom>

Heh... the vision in my head, is the pit fiend smiling devilishly (hah!) pointing... Then a look of utter terror entering the poor minion devil's eyes while it screams and claws the at floor to no avail... "wait wait master n- nooooo" <booom!>
 

FireLance said:
Well, I don't see why it can't have both options: either exploding an ally on its turn as a minor action, or doing so as a reaction to its dropping below 0 hp. :)

I stil say make it blow up when it is bloodied, either on the PF turn or as an immediate action the moment the devil go bloodied, as long as it is just one for round. This add at least two kind of tactical choices

for the pit fiend, keep around a minion that is still able to fight (and to keep the PCs busy so they are don't attack him) or blow it up to hurt its enemies

and for the players, try to hit the devils from a distance and/or kill them ASAP bringing them from bloodied to dead before the pit fiend had a chance to blow them up. Because from what we know between the slide the burst and the no save it seems to be really hard for the pcs to defend themselves against these kamidevil (of course there is still a lot we don't know), this way there is something they could do.


also you get rid of that stupid slide.
 

Moniker said:
Unless they plan to do something funky to classes, right now it's entirely possible that a 26th level epic Fighter could have more than 350 HP.

That's assuming the fighter has rolled 10 HP a level and has an 18 Constitution:

260 HP base
104 w/+4 Con bonus across 26 levels
Heck, that's not including Toughness as the Fighter bonus feat over several levels.

The odds of a 26th-level fighter rolling all 10s for hit points are 1 in 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. Hardly a good basis for argument.

Let's try the average hit point roll of 5.5 per level beyond first, and a more reasonable Con score of 16 (remember there are no stat-boosting items in 4E). Total is 147.5 base hit points, plus 78 for Constitution, equals 225.5 hit points. And that's for a fighter with a very solid Con score.

Not that it really matters, since 4E will almost certainly use a different system for calculating hit points.
 

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