The Devil's in the Details: Slavicsek reveals the Pit Fiend in all its glory

[helium3]

Well, based one the magic item article, I would say that only the "neck" slot would be available to give you fire resistance, you would have to make a choice between fire resistance and some other effect/ability.

Errr. So the neither the party's "leader" or "controller" is going to be able to cast a spell that confers that resistance?

 

[Khaim]

It seems like things or number are missing. I got the impression that 26th level characters, do +13 damage, on the basis that they're 26th level characters.

This version of the pit fiend doesn't seem to be a match against 1 PC of that level, let alone 2. And honestly fire damage at that level probably won't do much when PC's will have ways of having fire resistance quite easily.

SAGA had damage that increased by level, mostly since everything was ranged and you needed a decent way to increase damage at all. D&D doesn't need that, and I haven't seen anything to suggest that your level bonus applies to damage. It does apply to just about all d20 rolls, though.

As for it not being a match for a PC... Well, I haven't seen what a 26th level PC looks like. Neither have you. But I think any single PC is going to be swarmed by summoned minions, and is going to have a tough time hacking through AC 44 with 350 HP.

Also, one of the most powerful demons around who uses fire with pretty much all his attacks is not immune to fire. He has resistance 30, which is the 3e equivalent of a 2nd level spell at CL 11. In other words, the best resistance you can expect to have at 26th level is roughly what you normally got at 11th level. The PCs might have resist fire 10, but even then I doubt they all have it.

 

[Jim DelRosso]

Dear lord. Was that comment really necessary? I thought he had a good point. A noble should have pretty good social skills, I would think, especially a devil who lives not by raw power but also by influence and ability to command.

Even if his untrained skill is ungodly, I'm sure there will be some trained characters who would scoff at +22. I guess I prefer my pit fiends to have some backbone, both physically and socially....

You know, sometimes people who have a bone to pick with 4e rules and such might actually have a point....

But he has two great social skills: it's just that they're Scare People and Lie To People, while Get People To Like Me is stuck at merely "good". The dude's a twelve-foot tall bright red devil with scales, wings, fangs, and a mace the size of a Buick; I'm not seeing a disconnect here, noble or not.

 

[Lizard]

Just make the rest of that crap up. Who cares how may ranks in Profession (Juggler) he has? Just give him whatever you feel he needs to make him fit into you worldbuilding plans. That's what I've done for years and as long as it doesn't screw up the CR it works perfectly.

So, basically, he's as good at everything as any other monster of his level is. He has no special powers to help him fulfill his role *in hell*, just his role as an opponent for the PCs. He has a bland, boring, list of a great big THREE skills. He has no mechanical existence outside his combat role. He appears to fight the PCs, then he's done. Everything about him is centered on his existence in the encounter. (I mean, he doesn't even have Planes knowledge!) ("So, Pit-dude...where do you live?" "I dunno. Don't have that skill. Let's rumble!")

His one bit of interesting text -- the once-a-century-wish -- seems to be almost an afterthought. Why once a century? Presumably, he's not going to be granting wishes to PCs, so it's not much of a balancing mechanism. To reduce the total wishes available in the world? I dunno. Further, since there's no way (other than DM fiat) to determine if a particular Pit Fiend has already granted a wish, the century limit is kind of 'Meh'. I suppose it has some kind of mythic resonance, and 4e does need all it can get at this point.

Yes, I can "just make it up". Which leads me to ask why I'm buying a Monster Manual...or a rules set...when the kneejerk response to every complaint about missing or oversimplified information is "Dude, just make it up!"

I can make up the whole game if I had to. But I was under the apparently silly and mistaken impression WOTC wanted my money and was presumably going to sell me more than a blank sheet of paper labeled "Make it up".

(And in the Great Painful Irony department, the part we SHOULD make up -- the world -- is being spoon fed to us. Sigh.)

 

[Hjorimir]

Well as far as exploding minions go, it doesn't bother me any more than balors exploding when they die really. Maybe the summoned minions are just manifestations of hellish power in a corporeal form and the explosion is just a sudden release of said power? I'm sure a DM can come up with a clever way of explaining it.

Another thing we may want to keep in mind is that there could be general devil powers we're unaware of (lie we see in 3E's Monster Manual).

Like others, I am seriously doubting the PCs will have a lot of access to energy resistances based on what I'm seeing. I'm also happy about the lower damage output, which reminds me of AD&D numbers.

I'm a bit surprised he doesn't have any feats, but I'm fine with that really.

 

[tombowings]

Errr. So the neither the party's "leader" or "controller" is going to be able to cast a spell that confers that resistance?

Honestly, I have no idea, I'm just giving you my views on what I know about the pieces I've seen of the system. I believe the devs. know what they're doing. and the wouldn't have made the Mace attack all fire damage if resistance is very common.

 

[helium3]

You have to look at it from an encounter POV, not just the monster on it's own.

The Pit Fiend is spec'd as a Leader, not a Brute (frontliner). When you run into this guy, he's got (for example) two 26th level "Brute" Devils and a 26th level "Skirmisher" Devil running around in addition to the guys he's summoning. All these guys working in tandem, *that's* what you're up against.

Further, if I'm right, PC HPs at high levels are going to be lower than many think.

The other things I thought of was that I had heard that the new encounter paradigm was that the PC's will be at 80% of strength once they've used up all their per-day powers. So, we can't expect a single monster to do that much damage on its own, otherwise this might get screwed up.

I remember right after 4E was announced, one poster was talking about how he'd been running a Star Wars Saga Edition game and that essentially the characters could slaughter for as long as they wanted. They never really got worn down by fighting. So, maybe the Pit Fiend needs to be kinda wimpy on its own in order to allow that to happen.

 

[Khaim]

I certainly hope characters get decent bonuses to attack. The AC 44 Pit Fiend looks like a tough foe to strike. Assuming a 26th level warrior type character might have the following attack bonus:

Character level (+13)
STR 24 (+7) (STR 18 + level bonuses (SAGA basis))
Magic Weapon (+5) (This one might go higher in 4th edition)
Feats? (+3) (Made this one up)

Attack Bonus = +28

This warrior will need to roll a 16+ to hit the Pit Fiend. It looks to me that without a (high) bonus attack weapon, you would be lucky to hit the Pit Fiend. Even with one, it is a real challenge.

Huh. Well, add another few points, since a fighter-type better get at least the +3 from class, and you're right that feats etc should add some too. But yeah, he has high AC for his level.

Wait, no. The reverse-engineering suggests he has +11 Fort, +8 Ref, and +11 Will, and a total of +14 AC (some of which is probably armor). He's also got +7 to attacks. (This is comparing his listed stats to what he should have from abilities + level.) So a fighter type probably has comparable numbers: at least +10 to hit, possibly more, on top of the other stuff. Maybe less, since as a PC he's expected to have that +5 sword. Still, the numbers could easily work out, and to be honest, we don't know enough about PCs yet to tell.

 

[helium3]

Honestly, I have no idea, I'm just giving you my views on what I know about the pieces I've seen of the system. I believe the devs. know what they're doing. and the wouldn't have made the Mace attack all fire damage if resistance is very common.

Fair enough. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

 

[helium3]

I'm a bit surprised he doesn't have any feats, but I'm fine with that really.

The designers specifically stated that monsters wouldn't have feats.

At least, I think they did. In one of the podcasts . . .

. . . but maybe I'm just imagining things.