The Devil's in the Details: Slavicsek reveals the Pit Fiend in all its glory

[Stogoe]

Yes, we are at that point. The writing isn't just slightly bad. It's bad. Those mistakes would be corrected in a high school paper.

The bad writing is unfortunately part of a trend. Not a terrible, dismal, or unstoppable trend, but an irksome one. I want to call attention to it so that I can read about my favorite game (and I am defintiely buying and reading 4e) without being jarred out of immersion by high school mistakes.

Is writing the most important part of a game? No, I agree it's not. The game can still be a lot of fun with bad writing. But it would be even better with good writing.

Oh, good. Literary snobbery. I love that ever so much more than grognardian edition-snobbery. Sheesh.

And 'cool'? What is people's problem with that word? I really don't get it. Is it the inherent optimism in the word? You don't like that the designers are excited about their game? You guys are weird beyond belief.


And in my mind, it's not the legionnaires the Pit Fiend is turning into kamikaze fireballs, it's the hundred plus screeching imps that circle and twitter above the battlefield.

 

[Lizard]

To some extent, I'd like that to be the case. I mean, certainly a problem in the 3.5 system is when you take some sort of creature with a high AC for its CR and then slap +4 full plate barding on it. No technical CR increase, but it's got an AC way disproportionate to its challenge rating. It makes sense from an in-game perspective that some villian would want his pet creature to be as tough as possible, but it throws certain game aspects way out of whack. I wouldn't mind seeing that gone.

I agree with this -- in 3x, when I take some bugbears and put them in full plate with masterwork greataxes, they are MUCH more deadly than a CR 2 creature should be, but the CR system makes no allowances for equipment -- just added levels. What I'd *wanted* to see from 4e would be a system which worked this in -- for example, perhaps a "well equipped" option, which gave me (Monster Level*200) gold pieces to spend on shiny toys and raised XP value by 10%. (All numbers 100% pulled from ass) Given the normalizations of equipment costs in 4e, this would be easy to do.

However, it seems the design method in 4e is "You want a 3rd level Soldier. Here's min and max damage ranges. What kind of weapon it carries is 100% flavor text and doesn't directly impact the stats -- rather, you should adjust the stats to 'fit' the weapon it's carrying."

Might NOT be the case, but, it is seeming that way.

 

[Benimoto]

Well, if this is the case, why can't devils simply blow themselves up at will, kind of like infernal suicide bombers? Why does it take them being ordered by a superior? If their so hot for exploding, why do they have to be coerced into doing it?

It just seems like a very strange set up to me.

I agree, but that's mostly because of the presentation. I mean it's presented as a command, but it's clearly some sort of power similar to a spell. It's even got the Fire keyword, though also somewhat strangely, it has the Charm keyword as well. Similar to your question, why can't they just slide around all the time, if it's some sort of superior, immediate movement?

I agree that the fluff is somewhat inadequate here, but the crunch seems fun enough to keep me interested.

 

[ShinRyuuBR]

Can't actually read the whole topic anytime in the near future, so I'll drop some cents...

The notation that the Pit Fiend has +2 to Saves would seem to confirm this mechanic. Presumably if the Pit Fiend gets hit by an ongoing effect, it too rolls every round to see if it shakes it off. And it gets a +2 to do so. Nice.

I expect the +2 to come from being either an elite monster or an epic tier one: +0 for heroic, +1 for paragon, +2 for epic.

My guess is, since it takes 2 standard actions and 2 minor actions in the suggested first turn, the action point gives it a bonus standard action or even a bonus standard and a bonus minor. Need more info to be sure though. Elite monsters might just get extra actions.

With the action point, he takes 2 standard actions and 2 minor actions; without it, he could take 2 minor actions only if he trades one for a move action. Thus, I submit the action point actually DOUBLES your number of actions in the round.

In fact, I find it interesting that both melee attacks are listed as standard actions, and yet the frenzy, in which he can use both melee attacks, is also listed as a standard action.

Note that tail can only be used at range 1, while the mace can be used at range 2. Its possible that both can only be used in a frenzy at range 1.

The tactical teleport ability is described as "recharge 4 5 6". I'm guessing this is something like SAGA, where minor (=swift?) actions can be spent to gain additional uses in the encounter.

Might be a d6 roll with a 50% chance of recharging. Which would be weird since concealment and saving throws are d% in nature but use d20.

Celestial has been replaced with "Supernal", probably for all kinds of critters of the Astral Plane. Still, it would make sense too if the Hells had evolved their own language.

Would be Infernal, not Celestial.

Edit:
Seems that Fort 52 = 2x +21 (Con), Ref 38 = +20 (Dex) +18 (Wis) and Will 40 = +18 (Wis) +22 (Cha). Though, this does not correspond to the spined devil, which would have all defenses at 10 while they are at 18.

 

[DaveMage]

I dunno - if I'm a devil and I'm summoned by a pit fiend, I think I immediately declare that I'm not that pit fiend's ally.

 

[Rallek]

Stogoe -

My problem with the developers constant use of the word "cool" is this; they're the developers, they developed whatever it is I'm about to read/hear about. I'm going into that assuming that they like it. I doubt that they're going to say, "This mechanic sucks.... it's really lame how we did this, but none of us could think of anything better, and we kind of want 4e to be terrible, so we did it this way." They made it, they kept it, is it a stretch to believe that they like it? "Cool", in its pop-culture sense, is just an adjective denoting something that the speaker likes, and I already assume that they like it.


Beyond that, I'm about to read/listen to whatever it is that they have to say. If it really is cool, after I've finished reading/hearing about it I'll probably think something along the lines of, "hmmm... that seems pretty cool.", and if I don't think it's cool the developers assuring me that it is many many times is not going to change my mind. If they want to try and convince me that I'm mistaken, and it is cool after all, then they can do that by giving me some more information on it, or perhaps expanding the context of their example, not just by parroting "cool cool cool" at me.


Lately it's been more restrained, and I am glad of that. I can't speak for anyone else, but that is my "problem with that word", at least in the context of WoTC and 4e.

 

[Rechan]

As a sidenote: you don't see much fluff in the description of their abilities. It's just "This is the action, this is the effect."

 

[Rallek]

I agree, but that's mostly because of the presentation. I mean it's presented as a command, but it's clearly some sort of power similar to a spell. It's even got the Fire keyword, though also somewhat strangely, it has the Charm keyword as well. Similar to your question, why can't they just slide around all the time, if it's some sort of superior, immediate movement?

I agree that the fluff is somewhat inadequate here, but the crunch seems fun enough to keep me interested.

The Pit Fiend is a Leader, much like the Warlord as I understand it. Thus the allied devils need the Pit Fiend's command to explode much like a PC needs the warlord to yell "feather me yon oaf" in order to immediately gain a ranged attack.


It's the special magic of leaderiness or whatever. In one instance it makes devils explode, in the other it generates free and immediate attack actions. Leaderiness is mysterious indeed.

 

[mrswing]

It's the special magic of leaderiness or whatever. In one instance it makes devils explode, in the other it generates free and immediate attack actions. Leaderiness is mysterious indeed.

That clinches it. I want a PC class which can force party members to slide across the battlefield and explode them amidst their enemies NOW!

 

[Kraydak]

...
And 'cool'? What is people's problem with that word? I really don't get it. Is it the inherent optimism in the word? You don't like that the designers are excited about their game? You guys are weird beyond belief.

The developers' overuse of "cool" triggers my BS alarms. They are selling *to fans*. They should be able to let the crunch (very very little leaked beyond this article) sell itself. If you are going to artificially hype your product anyways, drop the silly statements about how non-primary magic items aren't important. A sample item we have heard about is a freaking Flying Carpet, which means that there will be people who CANNOT FLY without "optional" magic items. If flight is reasonably available, it is NOT optional. Too many blatantly absurd comments + fake sounding propaganda=dubious customers + very picky analysis of anything substantive you put out.