mattcolville
Adventurer
We've only played one session with both 4E proper and Essentials in the mix, and that was only about 4 encounters, maybe five. So there will be more reporting later.
One of the players rolled a Slayer, I believe. One of the Essentials classes, and I think a Fighter subclass? I'm not super clear on the class, but as far as I could tell, he's a fighter who does a lot of damage. Is he a striker? Dunno. That's not relevant to my point.
Now, this guy, the Slayer's player, would impress you as a smart dude. He was a senior architect at Symantec and responsible for large teams of people creating enterprise-level database security software. He codes in his spare time.
But for whatever reason, when it comes to rules systems, the number of different rules he can hold in his head at once is lower than anyone else in the group. He's the kind of player who, even after playing for *years* will forget that he has At Will powers, or how they work. We often notice that he's been rolling his Basic Attack for several rounds when he makes a new dude because he just doesn't grok that the "thing you do every round," is one of your At Wills. That's what they're for. Basic attacks are for when you are somehow restricted. It's not unusual for him to double or even triple-dip, adding his stat mod to every die rolled, instead of just the total. Doesn't matter how often we play, doesn't matter how many times we correct him, it's just the way he is.
I cannot chalk this up to stupidity as the guy is quite evidently not stupid. But certain things about AD&D or 3E stuck in his head, and nothing will get them out. He's used to rolling 1 die of damage and adding his STR bonus, so when he rolls three dice of damage, he adds that bonus three times. He's used to being able to swing a sword every round, and that's it. So whenever he makes a new dude, he tends to return to this "ground-state."
I *must* therefore conclude, since I cannot blame it on the *quality* of his brain, that it's an issue of playstyle. It's not just that he thinks this is how it *does* work, it's also how he thinks it *should* work and when it doesn't work like that, there's conflict, every time.
So about three encounters into the evening I notice that at first level he's adding like +8 to his damage rolls. That seems like a lot to me for a first level dude with no magic. So I watch him. And I notice that he doesn't seem to be using any powers. If you've read this far you probably realize that I thought I was seeing a repetition of his earlier weirdness. So I ask...
"What are you using to attack with?"
"A basic attack."
Ah-hah! I think.
"And how is it you're doing +8 damage with a basic attack?" Mind you, it might not have been exactly +8, but it was "+ a lot."
"That's what my dude does. I have two stances, one for bonus to hit, one for bonus to damage, and they just affect my basic attacks."
"That seems like a really good idea," I say, looking over at my friend and co-conspirator Jim.
Jim, sorta eyeballs the Slayer's player meaningfully and says "It's a *really* good idea for some people!" His meaning clear. He was delighted to see this guy able to kick ass without doing everything wrong.
So, who knows what WotC intended, but this is what I suspected we'd see based on early description of Essentials, and it's working. The Slayer is simpler than a 4E character. He's more like an AD&D character. He's not using At Wills, man I don't know if he has them or not, but his player wasn't using them. He has stances and those let my friend run his dude in an extremely straightforward, and somewhat old-school, manner and still be effective--impressive even--and have fun with the added benefit that he doesn't look stupid when we say "what the hell are you doing?"
So if you're looking for some direct experience with mixing the two, and what the Essentials stuff is good for, this is that post.
One of the players rolled a Slayer, I believe. One of the Essentials classes, and I think a Fighter subclass? I'm not super clear on the class, but as far as I could tell, he's a fighter who does a lot of damage. Is he a striker? Dunno. That's not relevant to my point.
Now, this guy, the Slayer's player, would impress you as a smart dude. He was a senior architect at Symantec and responsible for large teams of people creating enterprise-level database security software. He codes in his spare time.
But for whatever reason, when it comes to rules systems, the number of different rules he can hold in his head at once is lower than anyone else in the group. He's the kind of player who, even after playing for *years* will forget that he has At Will powers, or how they work. We often notice that he's been rolling his Basic Attack for several rounds when he makes a new dude because he just doesn't grok that the "thing you do every round," is one of your At Wills. That's what they're for. Basic attacks are for when you are somehow restricted. It's not unusual for him to double or even triple-dip, adding his stat mod to every die rolled, instead of just the total. Doesn't matter how often we play, doesn't matter how many times we correct him, it's just the way he is.
I cannot chalk this up to stupidity as the guy is quite evidently not stupid. But certain things about AD&D or 3E stuck in his head, and nothing will get them out. He's used to rolling 1 die of damage and adding his STR bonus, so when he rolls three dice of damage, he adds that bonus three times. He's used to being able to swing a sword every round, and that's it. So whenever he makes a new dude, he tends to return to this "ground-state."
I *must* therefore conclude, since I cannot blame it on the *quality* of his brain, that it's an issue of playstyle. It's not just that he thinks this is how it *does* work, it's also how he thinks it *should* work and when it doesn't work like that, there's conflict, every time.
So about three encounters into the evening I notice that at first level he's adding like +8 to his damage rolls. That seems like a lot to me for a first level dude with no magic. So I watch him. And I notice that he doesn't seem to be using any powers. If you've read this far you probably realize that I thought I was seeing a repetition of his earlier weirdness. So I ask...
"What are you using to attack with?"
"A basic attack."
Ah-hah! I think.
"And how is it you're doing +8 damage with a basic attack?" Mind you, it might not have been exactly +8, but it was "+ a lot."
"That's what my dude does. I have two stances, one for bonus to hit, one for bonus to damage, and they just affect my basic attacks."
"That seems like a really good idea," I say, looking over at my friend and co-conspirator Jim.
Jim, sorta eyeballs the Slayer's player meaningfully and says "It's a *really* good idea for some people!" His meaning clear. He was delighted to see this guy able to kick ass without doing everything wrong.
So, who knows what WotC intended, but this is what I suspected we'd see based on early description of Essentials, and it's working. The Slayer is simpler than a 4E character. He's more like an AD&D character. He's not using At Wills, man I don't know if he has them or not, but his player wasn't using them. He has stances and those let my friend run his dude in an extremely straightforward, and somewhat old-school, manner and still be effective--impressive even--and have fun with the added benefit that he doesn't look stupid when we say "what the hell are you doing?"
So if you're looking for some direct experience with mixing the two, and what the Essentials stuff is good for, this is that post.
