D&D General The DM is Not a Player; and Hot Topic is Not Punk Rock

[TaranTheWanderer]

I like to think, maybe, it's a state of mind.

You are playing and D&D is a game, (regardless of role in the game)

or

You are working and D&D is a chore (regardless of role in the game)

The latter happens more to DMs because of peer pressure and the need for someone to take that role, even if they don't want to do it. It happens less to those who play Player Characters because, if they aren't enjoying the game, they leave and the game can continue without them. Or they become a DM to play the game they want to play.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Moldvay puts it like this: "When a group plays a D&D game, one person acts as a referee and is known as the Dungeon Master (DM). Others play the roles of fantasy characters and are called the players."

I'm going to quote myself, and bold this for emphasis.

This, this right here, is exactly why people still love Moldvay. Do you see what he did that almost every other edition and description struggles with?

He succinctly explained it in two sentences, and he didn't use the word "play" or "player" when describing the DM, thus confusing people with imprecise words.

He's like the anti-Gygax. Every single time I read Moldvay, I am impressed with his economy and precision.

 

[embee]

Whether or not that is true, leaning on "common usage" as a key point of your argument....and then immediately invoking another point of common usage that opposes the first? Not a good argument. Whether or not the rest of the argument is sound, I haven't gotten to yet. Common usage arguments are already perilous things*; to then directly follow one with a different argument that shows exactly the opposite usage is not merely shaky, it's pretty obviously flawed.

*Whoever said that common usage had to be correct/accurate/precise? Plenty of commonly-used terms are none of those things, consider the interminable arguments about whether "ironic" MUST mean "a truly striking reversal of expectation" or whether it can also mean "a surprising or unexpected coincidence of events. If that's not enough to punch a hole in common-usage as a logical argument, I don't know what is.

I presented no argument whatsoever.

Merely snide commentary, a snarky aside, and, the lowest of the low...

A visual pun.

 

[prabe]

Hamburger Helper has never helped hamburger.

Nor has it ever made a great meal.

 

[embee]

Nor has it ever made a great meal.

No San Franciscan, native or transplant, has ever considered Rice-A-Roni to be any kind of treat and, a year's supply of said supposed San Francisco treat is, in actuality, a single unopened box precariously balanced on the edge of the kitchen trash can.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

A DM is in no way analogous to a neutral arbiter. A neutral arbiter is hired to settle a contractual dispute. The neutral arbiter, had no hand in drafting the language of the contract. The neutral arbiter played no part in the actions that lead to the dispute.

A DM, is fulfilling the role of arbiter, but no reasonable person would classify the DM as a neutral arbiter.

Well, there's me.

Then there's this ...

"In all cases, the GM must do his best to remain disinterested while retaining the power of absolute arbiter."

That's some dude who wrote a book. .... think it was something something Mastery by Gygax.

So there is two people!

 

[embee]

Well, there's me.

Then there's this ...

"In all cases, the GM must do his best to remain disinterested while retaining the power of absolute arbiter."

That's some dude who wrote a book. .... think it was something something Mastery by Gygax.

So there is two people!

And four lights!

 

[prabe]

Well, there's me.

Then there's this ...

"In all cases, the GM must do his best to remain disinterested while retaining the power of absolute arbiter."

That's some dude who wrote a book. .... think it was something something Mastery by Gygax.

So there is two people!

Sure, but how many people would call either of you two "reasonable?" ;-)

 

[Oofta]

The real question is why does the hamburger helper glove only have 3 fingers? What happened to it's pinky and does it have anything to do with their secret ingredients?

 

[prabe]

The real question is why does the hamburger helper glove only have 3 fingers? What happened to it's pinky and does it have anything to do with their secret ingredients?

I personally have never known a food processor or mandoline (slicer) that didn't require at least occasional blood sacrifice. Operating either without full attention is a sure way to satisfy that need.