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Darkness

Hand and Eye of Piratecat [Moderator]
Dyne said:
So far, it looks like a Warlock actually surpasses a Sorcerer in spellcasting power. :\
Well, they don't have much flexibility. They can repeat a few effects over and over but they don't have very many of them. Same thing with damage, and they can hardly match other arcane casters' strongest damage effects at the same level with eldritch blast, damage-wise. But they can do it all day long.

Besides, many people seem to consider the sorcerer as somewhat on the weak side... (Personally, I think they could use a few more Cha-based class skills, for starters.)
 

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Stone Angel

First Post
Hey sign me up for membership.

We just finished our first Epic Level adventure/mini campaign. I really had only one problem and I had noticed in regular level play it was much more apparent in the higher levels. Arcane casters dmg (primarily wizards) vs. other characters damage output. The only one that could really compete that I have seen at least was a frenzy berserker with a g. axe power attacking for 25 everytime.

So how do you if you at all regulate this curve? Suggestions, what has worked or hasn't. What mitigating factors if any do you feel justify this espicially at higher levels maybe not epic level play but the higher tier of regular levels?


The Seraph of Earth and Stone
 

Dyne

First Post
Nightcloak said:
Whoa Dyne, good luck - that be a tall order to fill. One I'm sure will be worth the effort in the end. If you’re inclined, post something later down the road. It would be interesting so see your rules.

If you can, you might want to pick up some low fantasy settings on the market for ideas. Conan and Grim Tales offer new rules - but they may be more complex than what you are shooting for.

As far as potions, for a low magic game I would probably just add an Alchemy check to the standard rules, say DC 15 plus spell level. For an epic game with Sword and Sorcery flavor I'd set the DC at 25 plus spell level with the caveat of exotic component bringing down the DC and magical locations or power rituals (cabals or sacrifice) also bringing down the DC. Since more goes into the potion creation process (your dedicating a skill ranks and the added possibility for failure) I would also open up the ability for all spell levels. Be sure to adjust the price upwards since potion creation is rare.

As far as the sorcerer goes, it sounds like the Warlock packs flavor for the type of game your shooting for anyway. Roll with it, nothing says your game needs to include every core class.

Hope that helps. Good Luck!

On Warlocks:
I want the game to be more low-magic, but I don't want all spellcasters to route their power from a fiendish source. Vancian spellcasting just annoys me. Spellcasters would still be a necessity, since I want the setting to be somewhat magical, but I want them to have fewer restrictions while still staying balanced in comparison to the other classes. I'll take the Warlock idea of invocations to these spellcasting classes, but the rest of the class doesn't fit.

On potions:
Actually, I would have them be more common. The idea was to be able to have any old apothecary be able to mix together a few herbs and: voila, a potion. But, in order for this to totally work, I would have to go through and eliminate some of the potions that don't totally fit the idea because they are too closely tied to magic. I think I'll use your idea for pricing, though.

On the Sorcerer:
I think I've got it worked out. When starting off, a Sorcerer will start with 5 "spell slots." Basically, he can spend those slots for spells. If he puts 1 slot into a spell, he can use that spell 1/day. If he puts 2 slots in a single spell, he can use it 2/day. This follows up to 5 slots, which will let him use the spell at will. I think I've decided that a Sorcerer begins with 5 spell slots at 1st level, but he gains an additional spell slot every level. At 1st level, he can only use 0 and 1st-level spells. At 11th level, he gains access to 2nd-level spells, at 21st, he gains access to 3rd-level spells, etc. I might have to adjust some of the spells, however, since they might quickly lose their worth.

I'm also working on a "Book Wizard." He would be able to learn more spells than the Sorcerer, and probably be able to use all at will, but he would have to cast all of them out of his spellbook, and doing so would take much longer to cast each spell than it would take a Sorcerer. I'm thinking on doing it pretty much like the D&D Wizard, but getting rid of the Spells per Day, and increasing the casting time to at least 1 round for each spell. So, to cast a spell, a "Book Wizard" would have to use up a full-round action to begin casting, and the spell wouldn't resolve until just before his next turn. To make the Sorcerer more appealing, (since the 1 round casting time of the "Book Wizare" might not be enough to balance things) I was thinking on changing the Sorcerer HD to d6, and let the "Book Wizard" have a HD of d4.

I might take a few things from the Ultimate character class series. The Sorcerer and the "Book Wizard," for example, might actually be two forms of the same class. I want to do this to get rid of the necessity of multiclassing, since it's difficult to create a character that totally fits your style otherwise, and having a character with levels in 3 or more classes be a common thing totally annoys me.
 
Last edited:

Dyne

First Post
Stone Angel said:
Hey sign me up for membership.

We just finished our first Epic Level adventure/mini campaign. I really had only one problem and I had noticed in regular level play it was much more apparent in the higher levels. Arcane casters dmg (primarily wizards) vs. other characters damage output. The only one that could really compete that I have seen at least was a frenzy berserker with a g. axe power attacking for 25 everytime.

So how do you if you at all regulate this curve? Suggestions, what has worked or hasn't. What mitigating factors if any do you feel justify this espicially at higher levels maybe not epic level play but the higher tier of regular levels?


The Seraph of Earth and Stone

I haven't played much at higher levels, but spellcasters have problems from the start. At lower levels, it is difficult to even keep them alive. But, once they reach 5th level and above, they start pumping out the power.

Magic just plays too large of a role in D&D. This is why I'm working on a new game setting. The only way that spellcasters can really be kept in the game without getting out of hand that I can see is that the Player who controls the character be more responsible. If a spellcasting character was more of a support character, and he only used his abilities when the party needed them most, and instead of using his abilities at every turn he allowed the rest of the party to do their stuff, then it wouldn't be a problem. But, then Wizards start to turn into the D&D version of Jedi, which they really shouldn't in my opinion.
 

You may want to take a look at the Call of Cthulhu magic system. Anyone can use magic but they take ability damage (and sometimes ability drain) as well as sanity damage.
 


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