The End of the World as We Know it?

[Imaro]

I think he was a little overzealous in how he said it, but I kind of agree with the basic point- that becuse it exists in the "ether" digital media is a little more persistent even then physical media.

Even if the device we currently use to view it is destroyed, it still exists for you to pull it up in other ways.

It kind of highlights the argument actually... the most sensitive part of the whole thing is the physical part.

It's like Skynet in T3 when it uploaded itself to the net. They might blow up Cyberdine but Skynet lives on.

Can't really say that about a book- since once you spill red mt dew all over it, it's kind of toast.

No I get that but I was pointing out that the UI devices necessary to interact with and use that data (I-Pads, computers, e-readers) are much more expensive than the UI (books) that we use when the data is stored on paper. While the data may be safe, it's useless without an interface to view and use it from.

EDIT: Now granted, continual destruction of book after book after book will eventually run into the cost of such devices... but they are privy to the same types of vulnerabilities... so I have to wonder if you do that with books, would you be any better with a laptop or I-Pad?

 

[Dannager]

Did you read the part about how casual use... as in taking it to a table with soda, beers, cheetos and over excited gamers... increases the likelihood of something happening to said device (Scribble got my point, even though he didn't agree with it... not sure why you didn't)? If you did I don't see how you came up with this as a response.

You're right, I did miss your point about exposing your device to the hazards of other people's drinks. Now, mind you, I'm personally unfamiliar with this, as I've never lost a book or computer to someone else's beverage (though I have lost plenty of character sheets), but I have managed to spill soda on my own keyboard while working twice.

This is a valid criticism of keeping everything digitally - if it requires that you bring your computer into risky, Cheetos-filled situations, it can potentially become expensive.

Again, though, it does nothing to harm the permanence of your data. A soda spilled on a laptop might ruin the hardware, but if you've done any kind of redundant storage whatsoever, your data is fine. On the other hand, a soda spilled on a book will be a less expensive replacement (or, at least, most of the time; an out-of-print book can be quite costly to replace - potentially moreso than, say, [ame="http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-1001PXD-EU17-BK-10-1-Inch-Netbook-Black/dp/B004LUU77G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1310071870&sr=8-1"]a netbook[/ame]), but until you get that replacement, you're dealing with damaged data, as it were.

 

[Dannager]

EDIT: Now granted, continual destruction of book after book after book will eventually run into the cost of such devices... but they are privy to the same types of vulnerabilities... so I have to wonder if you do that with books, would you be any better with a laptop or I-Pad?

While they're more expensive to replace, they're also more useful in other contexts. Outside of a D&D game, an iPad has a ton of utility. Outside of a D&D game, a Player's Handbook is firewood. This cuts both ways, of course - lose your iPad and you have to deal with not having all of that utility at your disposal until it's replaced. Lose a D&D book, and you just have to deal with not having that D&D book.

 

[Pentius]

EDIT: Now granted, continual destruction of book after book after book will eventually run into the cost of such devices... but they are privy to the same types of vulnerabilities... so I have to wonder if you do that with books, would you be any better with a laptop or I-Pad?

This does depend to some degree on the person, but I'm going with 'yes'. I know if I came home with a backpack full of books and magazines, I wouldn't think twice about dropping it on the floor or tossing it to the bed, but if I have my laptop in there, I set it down gently. I think most people, at least when they're thinking about it, will be much more cautious with an expensive item than with a cheap one.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Yep- I always lost pen after pen after pen...until I bought one made of azurite/malachite and cocobolo wood. Only a truly freak accident cost me that pen, and I replaced it within a week.

 

[Ryujin]

Judging by the number of notebook hard drives I replace, in a given year, many people don't respect electronics as much as you might think.

Oh, and cracked LCD displays too.

 

[Danzauker]

Yeah man- I'm not trying to say your experience/opinion is invalid in any way- just personally I find the online benefits to be more then the drawbacks.

Yep, neither I'm trying to invalidate your opinion. This is just a discussion forum and we're discussing.

What I'm arguing on is the "online" thing. That's correct for the CB, but the magazines? They're just "downloadable".

They're no more "online" than if you put them in a DropBox folder on a web shared folder (which is, incidentally, exactly what I do).

Actually, putting them in a DropBox folder is WAY better because 1) You can access them even after your subscription has expired 2) you have them all nicely sorted by issue number / article name.

Anyway, let's say the magazine are now "digital". Is digital automatically better? IMHO no.

Let's say I took my tapes left over from the '80s, and ripped them to single mp3 files, cassette per cassette instead of splitting in tracks. Sure, I've gone digital, but I'm not taking advantage of all the added benefits of tagging and I have to rewind and fast forward like the good ol' days.

At the moment the magazines are typeset, laid out and rigidly formatted as if they were articles ready to print, only... WotC saves the cost of printing and has you download them.

You get some benefits by the digital format, of course, like text search and some portability benefits, but it's just scraping the surface of digital technology.

What I'd like to see? A real online paradigm shift, maybe. Let's make an example. Let's consider adventures (but the point can be applied to aother kind of material, too).

Imagine an adventure laid out fluidly where:

- you have no word count limit for paragraphs, chapters or page, you don't have to fit the "delve" in a 2 page spread, and you can take all the pages you want

- you can have complex and detailed navigation aids, menus and thingies to

- you can have small size images of map in the page, which you can click to get full size, high definition ready to print.

- you can have collassable sidebars or special paragraphs with extra info, or room descriptions, or sample NPC dialogs.

- you can hyperlink heavily stuff, so that NPC names take you in a click to the character description and stats, and so on

- finally, you could have an "export to printable format" to get a PDF for printing, if you needed to.

This is not sci-fi. You can do this using existing web development technologies. You could easily use or adapt one of the many wiki or content management softwares.

This is a "killer application" that would convince me to "switch online". It simply offers a lot that you couldn't do with dead trees.

 

[Scribble]

Anyway, let's say the magazine are now "digital". Is digital automatically better? IMHO no.

I agree and disagree with you here. I think the digital format offers a lot of added benefits. Is it "always" better... no, but for most things I think yes.

That said, if some of my other magazines went digital at this point I'd be annoyed... I don't have a tablet or an ereader... So that would bug me, but I could still see the advantages to the format.

My dad has a Kindle, and gets his paper(s) delivered through it. Now when he goes to Europe, he can still read his paper. No more piles of melting wet newspaper in the driveway when he gets home. No more looking for a place in Germany that might carry a newspaper he can read...

Let's say I took my tapes left over from the '80s, and ripped them to single mp3 files, cassette per cassette instead of splitting in tracks. Sure, I've gone digital, but I'm not taking advantage of all the added benefits of tagging and I have to rewind and fast forward like the good ol' days.

Sure you're missing out on a lot of good new stuff- but I actually did that back in the day. I recorded a number of mix tapes and bootlegs I had onto my computer.

At the moment the magazines are typeset, laid out and rigidly formatted as if they were articles ready to print, only... WotC saves the cost of printing and has you download them.

I think at this point we can just disagree about the cost they save.

You get some benefits by the digital format, of course, like text search and some portability benefits, but it's just scraping the surface of digital technology.

No disagreement here! I'd love to see pretty much all of those things you mentioned.

 

[Pentius]

Judging by the number of notebook hard drives I replace, in a given year, many people don't respect electronics as much as you might think.

Oh, and cracked LCD displays too.

Yeah, but you mentioned that you work with computers professionally, iirc. Of course you're going to see people when they have a problem. But in that hypothetical year, how many times are you going to see the average customer for a serious problem? I can't think of anyone I know that regularly breaks their hard drive or LCD display, heck I don't break a mouse once a year, and I specifically buy cheap mice from goodwill so that I can treat them poorly. Compare that to the dozen paperbacks I effectively lost this year when my brother borrowed them and moved to another state.

 

[Ryujin]

Yeah, but you mentioned that you work with computers professionally, iirc. Of course you're going to see people when they have a problem. But in that hypothetical year, how many times are you going to see the average customer for a serious problem? I can't think of anyone I know that regularly breaks their hard drive or LCD display, heck I don't break a mouse once a year, and I specifically buy cheap mice from goodwill so that I can treat them poorly. Compare that to the dozen paperbacks I effectively lost this year when my brother borrowed them and moved to another state.

Depends on the user. I replaced the hard drive once and LCD twice, in the last year, for the same user. Also did 3 virus removals, one of which required O/S reload. I see her notebook again, on a co-worker's desk right now, for a main board replacement. The bottom plate of the notebook looks like it's been cooked. Literally.

I generally see the same client, 3 or 4 times a year, for something. Call it 0.5 times (on average) for some hardware related issue. My group oversees roughly 2500 computers.

And then there are people like me, who think that books are a sacred thing and try to take good care of them. I've never lost a book, though I've worn a few out.