The End of the World as We Know it?

[Ryujin]

Again I will say give me a source that says the numbers.

I have seen a number of credible sources that say otherwise- that there isn't a huge savings between the two forms of media.

You are a guy on the internet that keeps basically saying trust me I know stuff.


P.S. Also from Wired, but in April of 2009:

"For publishers, the majority of a book’s costs is not in the printing or shipping, says Savikas. It’s in sales, marketing, product development and editorial. "Its more about the fixed costs," he says."

Cost Breakdowns: E-Books vs. Printed Books » DAVID DERRICO

 

[Scribble]

Cost Breakdowns: E-Books vs. Printed Books » DAVID DERRICO

Can you point me towards some sort of info on who this guy is?

 

[Atgard]

Hi guys. I saw a pingback on my blog post, and registered here to hopefully shed a little light.

The post you linked to mostly discusses the cost of printing physical books -- which I've read from many reliable sources (including the links at the start of my blog post) accounts for only about 10-15% of the cost of the book.

However, there are many other costs relating to physical books in addition to just printing them, including shipping, distribution, and returns (unsold printed books are destroyed or shipped back to the publishers for a full return!). I've formatted my own e-books, and it does take some time and effort, but e-distribution is undoubtedly a significant savings over print.

What's important to remember here is that e-book file creation/DRM costs are a one-time cost, divided over the number of sales. For best-sellers, this cost trends toward pennies per copy sold. Even for my modest level of sales, those costs are relatively minimal. (For someone who only sells a few copies, the cost is obviously much more substantial per unit sold.) On the other hand, there are additional print costs associated with every unit sold.

My post doesn't really go into detail about how much it costs for marketing, salaries, rent, DRM (which is not required and many people consider counterproductive), etc., because these things vary wildly from publisher to publisher, and because the publishers closely guard this info and do not release it.

I hope that info is helpful to your discussion...

Can you point me towards some sort of info on who this guy is?

You could check the "About" page linked to on the blog post. But I'm basically an author who also closely follows e-books and the publishing industry, and blogs about them.

 

[Ryujin]

That's sort of my point.

You're making a philosophic argument (physical goods have intrinsic value, digital goods do not), which is a silly argument (first, because it assumes that an item's intrinsic value is relevant or even important, and second because digital goods arguably do have intrinsic worth), and which you are arguing by saying that a digital good's value is easily dismissed because it requires another thing to be used. I countered by arguing that even physical books require another thing to be used. And if you don't find the "working eyes" argument compelling because you don't know many blind people, how many people do you know who use glasses to read?

Would you just as easily dismiss the worth of a physical book if you needed glasses in order to get any use out of it?

Actually my point is mostly about physical cost of production, but a 'thing' does actually have intrinsic value, that can be measured.

 

[billd91]

At least with electronic media, if I forget my reader, 9 times out of 10 there is another device on me or near me that can do the task.

But for how long? I've got 30+ year old Dragon magazines that are still perfectly readable. Can you be certain that your electronic file formats will be supported on a similar time frame as a physical book will be readable?

 

[billd91]

I countered by arguing that even physical books require another thing to be used. And if you don't find the "working eyes" argument compelling because you don't know many blind people, how many people do you know who use glasses to read?

Would you just as easily dismiss the worth of a physical book if you needed glasses in order to get any use out of it?

If my eyes don't work, I can find someone whose eyes do to read to me. I can also use books to press flowers.

It's true that electronic formats do open up certain avenues of accessibility, but they lose others and depend on an increasingly complex web of other things that have to work. Remember the 2003 blackouts? I hope your gear (of whatever stripe) aren't running low on charge when the blackout hits.

 

[Scribble]

You could check the "About" page linked to on the blog post. But I'm basically an author who also closely follows e-books and the publishing industry, and blogs about them.

Thanks for the info- I will read more on your site as soon as I can.

I don't mean to offend, it's just I've never heard of you before, nor could I find any info on you on Wikipedia (which might have been confused by the fact that there's a soccer player who apparently has a similar name?)

 

[Scribble]

But for how long? I've got 30+ year old Dragon magazines that are still perfectly readable. Can you be certain that your electronic file formats will be supported on a similar time frame as a physical book will be readable?

As I said up thread all media forms have their downside, and require their own form of care so that they remain usable in the future.

Even magazines- if I don't care for them, they tend to be just as unreadable.

I have media from years ago that is still usable. It being outdated doesn't really mean it's unusable.

In any case I never argued that digital media was the end all be all problem free utopia of the future or anything. Just that the benefits of digital media are rapidly outpacing the benefits of non digital media.

 

[Atgard]

Thanks for the info- I will read more on your site as soon as I can.

I don't mean to offend, it's just I've never heard of you before, nor could I find any info on you on Wikipedia (which might have been confused by the fact that there's a soccer player who apparently has a similar name?)

Oh, no offense taken. I'm not famous or anything. Certainly not famous enough for Wikipedia. Just a guy who blogs about publishing-related topics. (And by all means, double-check any info you find on my blog -- I'm not infallible, but I do make an effort to make sure my posts are well-researched and accurate.)

 

[MrMyth]

Let's face it: the interface they have in place is actually pretty solid, and complaining that you have to click two times instead of one to actually download a PDF is about as incredibly mild as a complaint can possibly get.

I do often think that complaints get lobbied towards WotC that are underserved, but let's not go too far with praise for the site - it has a long, long way to go. WotC themselves have said as much - the magazine staff has mentioned an overhaul of the archive system being high on their list, but also hard to tackle since many of the current problems are tied into the existing architecture of the website, itself still a holdover from years and years ago. Which means in order to improve one area, they would need a complete rebuild of the entire website. I believe they've mentioned that they hope to look at doing so in 2012 - but nothing is guaranteed.

It remains something I am hopeful for, though, since it is quite desperately needed. It might be easy to dismiss "two clicks instead of one" as a minor issue, but it is actually a pretty big deal in website design. You get a pretty substantial drop in interest between something you can reach in a single click, and something that requires drilling down through multiple levels.

And, in this case, it can take quite a bit to get where you need to go. From the main page of the D&D website, it will take at least 4 clicks to get to an article or issue, and that is knowing exactly what you need to do and what article/issue you are looking for.

It does get the job done, and organizing data like this can be a tricky thing. But it is certainly something I would be glad to see, and I don't think there is any real fault in that.