The Essential Knight

[UngeheuerLich]

For the most part, 4E has pretty solid balance between its classes with some spikes and some dips. In general though there isn't a single class that is nonviable and I've ceased micromanging any class in 4E. I let people play what they want and the system 90% of the time takes good care of them - without my micromanagement of powers/feats except in rare cases. That's a true triumph as a system, at least until Psionics was released in PHB3. Right now any Psionic class that gets a single low level at-will power that scales poorly (EG Lightning Rush and Mind Thrust) becomes far more powerful or even game breaking by epic. This is because the power point system is deeply, chronically flawed and doesn't work. For the first and only time in 4E, I've had to micromanage three classes and think about rewriting for myself an entire system (Power Points) to bring spamming of low level "at-will" augment 2s down by epic tier.

It's not my idea of fun and not why I enjoy 4E.

I will keep ragging on Psionics all the time until I get my point across. Psionics are broken because they completely dismantled part of the encounter/daily system for them. At low levels they perform okay, but once they get the PP to turn an encounter power into an at-will some become broken or far more effective than if they take a higher level power (Battleminds with Lightning Rush for example, is a night and day difference as a defender).

Just because 2 powers of the psion are badly designed (maybe a fixed bonus will repair it), an maybe because higher level powers are a bit on the weak side for the amount of PP they cost, this doesn´t mean that they are inherenly broken by design.

You remember the warlord using its lead the attack power until level 30? A simple errata to those two powers would be helpful.

Ligning rush on a battlemind would have better been a class feature at this level. So noone would whine about using it until level 30 and they could have saved space for later powers that won´t replace it. (Battleminds have only 2 dailies and lightnng rush or something like that)

IMHO you are confusing bad game design with bad power design in most cases. I believe the fighters stances are a cool way to distinct this class from others.

You also should have in mind, that a long time 4e player has no problems with at wills that can be used as MBA. A new player may have an easier time wrapping their brain around stances and auras which are very intuitive.
Also power strike is a simple way to have some extra oomph at a critical point. Maybe an extra effect like dazed would have been cool, but at 1st level it may be a bit much.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Just to make it clear:

i believe this class is simple to understand and simple to play.

What we don´t know:
- what is battle guardian?
- how does shield finesse work?

- can subclasses be used with hybriding?
- are there new weapon mastery feats?
- does weapon specialization maybe allow taking feats without having the right prerequisites?

We know little, but wouldn´tbe worried. Its a great class for beginners. Less so for powergamers. Sorry, if this is the future of D&D4e it will be a great one!

 

[Black Knight Irios]

So far I'm interessted and I like to see more of this "knight" class. I can't really say how much I like it.

CharOp has a thread on this article as well (Essential Fighter: Knight ) and they have differing views as well.

• They have noticed the possibility of dropping STR and going CON + whatver you like with Melee Training.
• They brought up the basic attack enhancing feats especially in MP2
• Master's Blade for a permanent +1 to hit b/c you always have an active stance
• Synergy with Warlords or other (M)BA granting classes/abilities/etc.

We will see how well this new figher sub-class will be and how easily it will be broken or not.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Something i read on the RPG.net board:

melee training allows you to build a light armored dexterity based fighter by taking melee training. How cool is this?

Maybe the slayer build is even better for this because of his two-handed weapon talent for bows! I am pretty impressed now by the opportunity this gives with a single feat:

- Fighter that can use light armor
- high reflex
- high initiative
- able to wield a bow
- multiclass into rogue or ranger

edit: ninja´d

 

[Njall]

Yeah, there's going to be problems with this class design. Its NOT going to be able to work with a bunch of existing feats. Melee Training? HEY, I have a fighter that is 100% WISDOM based! Well, even worse, 100% CONSTITUTION based, lol. Existing feats are going to totally bork this design.

Well, existing feat are going to totally keep this design balanced
Fighters have quite a bit of feats that require Str, after all...

 

[Black Knight Irios]

Well, existing feat are going to totally keep this design balanced
Fighters have quite a bit of feats that require Str, after all...

The important thing is you can make STR secondary, tertiary, or drop it allcompletely which was impossible (there were one or more ways but hey...) prior to this MBA machine.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

And where is the problem here?

At the beginning of 4e everyone was upset, because a dex based fighter was impossible... and now you can build one and you are still upset?

Believe me or not, but the knight subclass is exactly what was suspected: a class that is easy to build (not so much choices, besides chosing stances and a weapon to specialize) and you can take feats to optimize it (MP2)

If it is broken (a.k. over- or underpowered) only time and charop will tell. But it is a great class design nontheless.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Defender Aura is easy: you only have to track if an enemy is adjacent to you to use it. I think all Knight markings are going to be similar in concept. The reference to other marked creatures is there just for interaction with other fighters.

I don't think so. I think that the aura is there to supplement marking capability to put the knight on even ground with the warden who can auto taunt close enemies. I believe there will still be more focused marking included in the class.

 

[P1NBACK]

I'm not gonna lie people. I wish Essentials would have been the classes released in the original 4E PHB.

I love em. Knight included.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

the only thing the knight needs is a mechanics like:

opportunity action:
when an enemy tries to move away from you or attack an ally, you make a melee basic attack. If the attack hits, it stops movement.