Re: Take two...
ajanders said:
Magic is the physics of your fantasy world: you have to have that worked out first before you can do anything else
Note necessarily; many times, for the purposes of the cultural (etc.) implications, two or more of the possible explanations are equivalent - in Tonguez list, both the totem spirits and the contract options fall in this category.
(This is not an endorsement of either, just pointing out that both have very similar ethical/cultural implications.)
What Toungez suggests ... all his different options, mind, are excellent. I use some of them for choice in my own campaign, but it differs significantly enough from the standard SRD that I hesitate to fling it into the middle of discussion. But they have some dramatic effects on the way magic works or the way the setting works.
Yep. Agreed, and ideally I'd like to keep the rule changes to a minimum (none preferrably). Since you're so adamant about physics first, philosophy second, let me address those options given by Tonguez.
Mutual need/Friends - I find this incredibly hard to swallow, especially on a first casting, and any physics should work equally well on all castings. However, the necessary rule changes are minimal, so I'll hold it in reserve.
Forced Labor/Final Fantasy - there's obviously a rules change here, and a few unanswered questions - how long is the creature bound? Does "death" end the binding?
OTOH, the ethical/cultural questions are pretty clear-cut. (Whether they bother a player character is a different issue.) And aside the (possibly occasional) setup, the rules changes are minimal. The "forced labor" has a higher-level tendency, based on the nature of the magical cumpulsion.
Totem spirits - while this is a cool idea, it really isn't appropriate for my particular homebrew.
Contracts - you missed a third option "you bring them to you". Unfortunately, this will only work for the higher level summonings, as the summoning spells do NOT confer communication ability (either way). IOW, this directly contradicts the rules as written. So this loses.
Some people might only summon unintelligent beings, like celestial dogs: some might only summon beings they disliked.
(Cleric of Heironius: "We need some expendable cannon fodder!
Second cleric of H: "I'll summon celestial badgers."
First cleric:"We'll be sending them to their painful bloody deaths, right?"
Second Cleric: "Yup."
First Cleric: "Then bring forth the legions of the darned, to suffer their deserved penance."
Second Cleric: "Right. Two dretch coming up.")
This kind of thing might change the way you type a summoning spell. (Or then again, maybe people just think it does.)
Aside from the "type" allusion, the implications behind your whimsical fiction are exactly what I'm hoping to address. Note that the implications are physics-independent (at least in this case).
Physics-wise, let's look at the SRD constraints: any summoned creature is brought from elsewhere (reagardless of whether it's summon monster, or summon nature's ally). All summoned creatures also benefit from a "materialized" condition (IOW, it isn't their 'real' body). No communication is conferred. "Dead" creatures are unavailable for 24 hours, while they are "reforming". The caster is allowed to choose the creature. Aligned/templated creatures change the spell's descriptor - i.e. a if the caster summons a fiendish dire rat, the spell just cast has the "Evil" descriptor.
An option presented in the DMG is "binding" the summonings to particular creatures - i.e. a caster would always get the same celestial badger. (This "binding" is independent of contracts.) As a side effect, this would mean that the spell might become unusable for a while (as the creatures recover).
Other options that might apply to the choice is making it permanent after the first casting. This is a minor rule change, but has the added benefit of reducing overhead, and interacts well with the DMG option. Possible adventure seed: what happens when the "host creature" dies outside of the spells influence (probably off-screen)?
Since both the extra-planar and intra-planar creatures gain the same "reforming" benefit, and communication is possible with more intelligent creatures. An unaddressed question is whether or not the communication is individual and "real". (IOW, if I summon a spinagon, could I later track down that identical spinagon?) If the communication is real, then the spell does not create "copies" of the creature, and instead must use the "real" spirit/soul. (It can't use the "real" physical body because of the "reforming" issue.)
I think it's safe to say that most people expect the creatures to be "real" (at least in this sense).
(OT, having examined the lists in detail, I'm going to have to change them.)
Anyway, discussion, please?
