The Ethics of Summoning

[GuardianLurker]

Summoned monsters are automatically subservient, and usually only last for a little while (1 round per level for SM and SNA).
....It makes more sense to me that it's some kind of reverse astral projection: they form a magical body on the prime, and their real body stays safe on their home plane.

Umm. Actually, by the SRD, the creatures _aren't_ subservient; they do act on the caster's turn, but unless he can communicate with them, he can't direct them.

And the problem with "reverse astral projection", which is what I first started with, is that it doesn't work real well for SNA, where the critters aren't necessarily extra-planar.

Frankly, the "physics" of summoning is proving to be an awful bear. Every time I think someone has it, I peel back a layer and it doesn't work.

If it wasn't for the fact that summoning is such a staple of the fantasy genre, I'd be tempted to just abolish it.

 

[Nasma]

From reading this thread this is what i came up with.

Firstly, I think that the creatures are subservient. They would obey the caster if they could, they simply can't understand what he/she is saying. The inablility to communicate does not affect the master/ slave relationship.

Secondly, I don't see why the 'reverse astral projection' method can't work for both SM and SNA. SM uses this with a monster from another plane, SNA does it with an animal from another plane, beastlands or somesuch.

 

[GuardianLurker]

The problem is :

From the SRD on SNA:
This spell summons a natural creature who attacks the character's enemies.

and

On SM:
This spell summons an outsider (extraplanar creature) that attacks the character's enemies.

which seems to indicate that creatures summoned by SNA are not extra-planar in nature.

Now, it is possible that SNA finds the creature, pulls it up out of the prime, and then sends it back down to the caster. The other problem with the "reverse astral projection" theory, is that it *is* possible to actually kill a creature by severing the astral cord. Also, astral projection's a fairly high-level spell (6th or 7th IIRC) and assumes willing subjects. And it puts the physical bodies in a coma-like state.

So there the caster is, summoning a celestial badger he's never met. The spell crosses the astral plane and finds a celestial badger, and yanks its astral form to the prime material plane, leaving a comatose and helpless badger-body behind. Which is fine if the celestial badger is only sleeping, but suppose it's fighting an invading fiendish fox?

The astral projection theory just doesn't seem to work well in my opinion, which is why I came here for help. Actually, the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that reworking the lists might not be a bad idea, and might solve a bunch of these issues.

 

[GuardianLurker]

Well, I've mulled it over (and over) and I think I finally came up with my answer, and you all have helped immensely.

Final answer:
Summoning creates creatures from a Platonic Ideal. The result is NOT an axiomatic, legendary or whatever creature (unless the summoning list says otherwise), but just a normal creature. This creature only exists for the duration of the spell, and cannot enter into binding contracts, nor does it retain any memory of past experiences.
The creature is exactly average for its type.

However, this creation draws on the existence of every similar creature, and any harm done to the creature is distributed amongst them at the duration's end. Generalized harm (i.e. solely HP damage) is usually spread evenly over all the candidates, greatly lessening its impact. Specific harm, such as crippling or death, is usally inflicted on a single, randomly determined similar creature.

Current magical theory has yet to make this connection. So while the public regards summoning with suspicion, it remains legal. Ethically, however it will impact the caster, and after a caster becomes aware of the connection, it will become an evil act (though not necessarily an evil spell).

Adventure Hook: all is going well in the Kingdom until the Princess's favorite pet mysteriously drops dead. Fearing hostile magics, the King calls in the PCs to investigate.

 

[BiggusGeekus@Work]

How about this: A summon spell takes a creature and makes a copy of its energy pattern. The pattern is then sent to the material plane and solidifies into a thing that looks and acts like the creature. You can't eat it cause its not real meat. When the spell ends or the creature dies the energy pattern just evaporates.

This is how I treat summonings. Callings are a different matter entirely. When you call a creature you get the real McCoy, the actual creature. And yes, reapeated callings will irritate the creature. Fortunately, the core rules say you have to negotiate with said creature before it will do anything for you.