The Evolution of the Fighter - take 2

[Leatherhead]

Sorry to keep beating a dead horse, but you've really got to put the 4e fighter against standard goblins (not minions) to make any meaningful comparison.

I disagree, in 4E goblin minions are the only standard goblin. Look at the level one goblins in the 4EMM, both of them would require PC class levels in 3.X to mimic what they are able to do in combat properly, giving them significantly different roles in combat compared to their previous incarnations. Not to mention their movement abilities would make it hard to adjudicate how the fight would go.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I disagree, in 4E goblin minions are the only standard goblin. Look at the level one goblins in the 4EMM, both of them would require PC class levels in 3.X to mimic what they are able to do in combat properly

Not relevant, partly because the 4e fighter has a whole lot more capabilities too but mostly because the simulation is basically independent of the changes between editions, and quite rightly so.

The difference between 4e goblins and 3e goblins doesn't make any difference at all, as 3e goblins just relate to 3e fighters and 4e goblins to 4e fighters.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I disagree, in 4E goblin minions are the only standard goblin. Look at the level one goblins in the 4EMM, both of them would require PC class levels in 3.X to mimic what they are able to do in combat properly, giving them significantly different roles in combat compared to their previous incarnations. Not to mention their movement abilities would make it hard to adjudicate how the fight would go.

Assuming a infinite, featureless plane, it shouldn't be so hard to figure that out. The Fighter should have no trouble catching up with the goblin.

EDIT:
Well, I might have to take back this statement. The standard Goblin Warrior has a little more then just the Goblin Tactics ability I had in mind at first. The Goblin Blackblade is easier...

 

[Leatherhead]

Not relevant, partly because the 4e fighter has a whole lot more capabilities too but mostly because the simulation is basically independent of the changes between editions, and quite rightly so.

The difference between 4e goblins and 3e goblins doesn't make any difference at all, as 3e goblins just relate to 3e fighters and 4e goblins to 4e fighters.

Ah, but it is relevant!

For the Goblin Backbiter to operate at peak performance, it must have combat advantage, something that is rather hard for it to gain in a one-on-one fight, but relatively easy in a group, where it can also employ its ability to get out of combat and move around to set up another flank or hide in order to gain combat advantage again. The Goblin Warrior likewise functions best when there is another monster to distract or slow the fighter while it moves about and fires. Goblin Cutters, on the other hand, are the only level one goblin that was designed to be on the front line absorbing blows and attacking people in the face, even if they can only absorb one blow each. To operate a test using them in less than their ideal roles is doing the 4E goblins a disservice, as it does not show what the monsters are actually capable of.

Perhaps a better solution would be to create a level 1 soldier or brute goblin and see how they square off against a fighter.