The Fall of Castle Zagyg?

I agree about the Expansion Project. :)

I'm still not sure about Yggsburgh, it seems like it ought to have the makings of a nice sandbox setting. I thought the surrounding countryside stuff was a well done and interesting site for low level play.

Edit: It ought to fit nicely in a Renaissance setting like the Warhammer world, or with the more Gothic sorts of D&D module.
 

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To me, Yggsburgh was a whole lot of unneeded detail about a completely uninspiring place (and the fact that they took something that I felt was already overkill of useless mundane info and decided to multiply it twenty-four-fold with the Yggsburgh Expansion Project strikes me as pure, unmitigated folly -- imagine if that level of effort (a team of a dozen+ freelancers working hard under Gary's supervision for a year or more) had gone instead into detailing the actual dungeons what we could've seen instead!).

Definitely.

One of the most incredible waste of space was that spent on the nobles. Not a single one of them has a personality. They live in a house, they have a family... and that was it. Several pages of it. Goals? Not a one.

Then there is the price of swords.

In at least one of the Yggsburgh expansion booklets, there's a store that sells items at C&C prices. Huh? Yggsburgh's economy works nothing like C&C's.

All in all, like a lot of Gary's work, it needs a competent editor. Troll Lord Games has some of the most incompetent editors in the business. (Jeff Talanian is competent, and that's why I think Upper Works is pretty good. A pity he doesn't work for TLG).

Cheers!
 

So...what are the chances CZ ends up with another publisher besides Mongoose? Paizo? WotC? Others? Or does it just fade away with the sunset?
 

If WotC it'd be "Gary Gygax's Castle Greyhawk" or similar, and incorporated into a rebooted Greyhawk setting - possibly that mooted "Greyhawk 576 CY", which would suit me fine. :)
 


One of the most incredible waste of space was that spent on the nobles. Not a single one of them has a personality. They live in a house, they have a family... and that was it. Several pages of it. Goals? Not a one.
Can't argue with you about the long list of nobles... they really should have been fleshed out.
 

A fundamental rule/attitude of C&C is to do it the way you like best.

Exactly.

The thing was, I realized that when running C&C, I could put C&C back on the shelf, leave the Basic rulebooklet, Expert rulebooklet, and 1e DMG on the table, and be even closer to the way I like best with one fewer book on the table.

(^_^)

As for Gygax Games: I’m reserving judgement.

I do think that any company is better off communicating as much as possible as early as possible, (one thing TLG was pretty good about) and I wish we were hearing more from them.
 

The thing was, I realized that when running C&C, I could put C&C back on the shelf, leave the Basic rulebooklet, Expert rulebooklet, and 1e DMG on the table, and be even closer to the way I like best with one fewer book on the table.
Yeah, that's the way it went with me, too. My house-ruled C&C game became so similar to the older editions that I finally realized I'd be better off just playing the older editions. (Not saying it works like that for everyone, but it certainly did for me.)
 

Yeah, that's the way it went with me, too. My house-ruled C&C game became so similar to the older editions that I finally realized I'd be better off just playing the older editions. (Not saying it works like that for everyone, but it certainly did for me.)


I like C&C for three main reasons. The Unified mechanic that takes care of saves, skill checks, and all other checks Two, it is the easiest "core" with which I can utilize ALL of my D&D, Paladium Fantasy, GURPS, etc... together, at the same time. Three, it does all this while being even simpler to run than the RC rules.

Other than that I can see myself going back to RC or 1E.

As for Yggsburgh, I see it as classic Gary. Same kind of subtle inspiration that made me fall in love with all his old stuff. Same kind of editing and mis spelling problems all of his old TSR stuff had. Totally classic, old school, and original. Even the layout and paper stock remind me of the old materials.

The coinage issue was definitely screwed up, but considering I haven't used price lists "By the Book" practically since day one of my gaming career, using alternative price lists are second nature to me. Plus I like how you can walk into one store and buy it for "X", then walk into another store and find essentially the same item for 1/5 the price of the other store. Reminds me of the real world.
 

Even leaving aside the terrible editing and production I found Yggsburgh to be very lackluster and bland. There were a ton of plot hooks, sure, but most of them were both completely obvious and not very interesting; very mundane stuff that's not at all what I want to spend my limited rpg-playing time on. To me, Yggsburgh was a whole lot of unneeded detail about a completely uninspiring place (and the fact that they took something that I felt was already overkill of useless mundane info and decided to multiply it twenty-four-fold with the Yggsburgh Expansion Project strikes me as pure, unmitigated folly -- imagine if that level of effort (a team of a dozen+ freelancers working hard under Gary's supervision for a year or more) had gone instead into detailing the actual dungeons what we could've seen instead!).

Definitely. If you removed the filler from Yggsburgh, you would get a 48 page Village of Hommlet style product. Mind you, I also think Hommlet was Gary's weakest module, and I do not find it interesting outside the upper section of the Moathouse, but of course lots of people like it. Yggsburgh is way too much, and the Expansion project takes that way too much into the stratosphere.

Imagine this:
Yggsburgh: 48 page saddle-stitched city & wilderness supplement, big-ass map by Darlene
Dark Chateau: 32 page "Moathouse" style module
Castle Zagyg: Castle Ruins: 32 page folio on the castle ruins and environs, lotsa maps
Castle Zagyg: Upper Works: 32 page folio, first few dungeon levels.
(etc.)

It is my opinion that Gary worked best when he was constrained by page count; his best products are lean and mean with a lot of content by page. It shows that he had to work hard to squeeze everything he could into a slim volume. Yggsburgh and other later modules do not have this -- of course, neither does the industry (which operates on a shamefully low pay-by-words basis, making bloat almost a certainty), but that is another can of worms.

As for Gygax Games, I have so little hope about getting something I will like that any development to the contrary will be a pleasant surprise. On the other hand - and I know this will be sacrilege - amateur publishers are delivering just the type of content I would have liked to see from EGG and Rob Kuntz, and doing it without the unsatisfactory compromises, delays, heartburns and false starts. Sure, it is not That Legendary Product People Have Been Waiting for Since 1979. But after a while, you have to ask yourself what matters more -- the form of expression or simple product fetishism.
 

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