The Fighter... post Players Handbook II

[Carfax]

In your opinion, is the fighter class sufficiently powered now after the release of the Players Handbook II? Has it returned to the days of 2nd edition when it was the undisputed king of melee?

Could a 20th level fighter, now defeat a 20th level barbarian, or even the vaunted 10th level Barb/10th level Frenzied Berserker

Assuming optimal build and appropriate equipment..

 

[Legildur]

You know, I always felt that the 3.xE fighter simply offered more combat flexibility than a Barbarian or Paladin. The extra feats allowed branching out, which was not really available to the other warrior types.

So yes, the PHB II has now extended those options fairly significantly, particularly with the Focus range of feats and those for shields.

That being said, the Barbarian still offers rage, skill points and wider range of skills, uncanny dodge, fast movement and damage reduction. The paladin offers something a whole lot more which can be pretty effectively leveraged in combat, but the available immunities and divine grace (Cha bonus to saves) are invaluable IMO.

The fighter is still fantastic in most situations, but I find the Barbarian and Paladin (in particular) offer wider role-playing hooks with the paladin providing improved survivability in particular (saving throws man)!

 

[Plane Sailing]

The Barbarian can be tops in one form of melee, the fighter probably can't beat him if it is just about doing as much damage with the two handed sword as quickly as possible...

But the fighter has so many more options in combat, he is a combat generalist rather than a combat specialist - and that means that he can fight on his own terms rather than that imposed by his foes.

The Barbarian technique that works fine against droves of orcs will suck mightily against big dragons or giants. The fighter can just switch to a different tactic.

Cheers

 

[Carfax]

That being said, the Barbarian still offers rage, skill points and wider range of skills, uncanny dodge, fast movement and damage reduction. The paladin offers something a whole lot more which can be pretty effectively leveraged in combat, but the available immunities and divine grace (Cha bonus to saves) are invaluable IMO.

And that is exactly why so many people were unhappy about the fighter's circumstance..

The Fighter wasn't even the top dog when it came to damage dealing ability (Barb takes that crown), something which he should be the best at considering his roleplaying aspect isn't as great as the rest of the warrior classes.

But, the Players Handbook II really has some nice combat feats, which I think will definitely catapult the Fighter pass the Barbarian in terms of the ability to put down foes and survive encounters.

As for roleplaying, I think a fighter could easily play a Mercenary, Knight and other men at arms....

Thats all he can do though..

 

[Carfax]

The Barbarian can be tops in one form of melee, the fighter probably can't beat him if it is just about doing as much damage with the two handed sword as quickly as possible...

Lets see. Barbarian gets +4 to AB (+5 with Weapon focus) and +6 to damage from Mighty Rage using a two handed weapon. The fighter can get up to +4 to AB from Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus and Melee Weapon Mastery.. Damage wise, he's getting +6 to his weapon of choice due to WS, WM and GWS, whether one handed or two handed.


So damage wise, they are basically even with the Fighter getting a slight lead using one handed weapons.

With the other feats though, a post Players Handbook II fighter should be able to beat a 20th level barb in straight combat, something which he was not able to do with regularity before..

 

[Thanee]

As for roleplaying, I think a fighter could easily play a Mercenary, Knight and other men at arms....

Thats all he can do though..

The fighter could be an aging mage, who somehow lost his magic powers and constantly complains how he would turn his opponents into frogs or whatnot, but has to beat them with a friggin' stick instead.

Of course, he dresses in wide robes (to hide his chainmail) complete with pointy hat.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Carfax]

The fighter could be an aging mage, who somehow lost his magic powers and constantly complains how he would turn his opponents into frogs or whatnot, but has to beat them with a friggin' stick instead.

Of course, he dresses in wide robes (to hide his chainmail) complete with pointy hat.

Bye
Thanee

You and your mages

 

[frankthedm]

Has it returned to the days of 2nd edition when it was the undisputed king of melee?

Could a 20th level fighter, now defeat a 20th level barbarian, or even the vaunted 10th level Barb/10th level Frenzied Berserker

Assuming optimal build and appropriate equipment..

The Fighter won't beat the B/FB in a stand up fight unless;

1. the fighter Improved combat expertices his entire BAB to AC for the duration of the Frenzy, in which case, the FB, either drinks an inviso potion [I believe they can do this while in frenzy] or power attacks for full hoping for the 20 which will induce the fort save. In a real fight the other party members would be chopped to bits by the FB.

2. the campaign uses mishaps on natural 1's. [Power attacking 4 for 1 should really lead to weapon breakage].

The FB does not die while in a frenzy so the fight was not fair to start with.

 

[Plot-Device]

I've always thought fighters could take Barbs at high levels, if nothing else because Perma-Tripping is annoying, and if it's successful even once or twice, ruins your rage. That and a perma-tripper gives you an excuse to use a scythe with imp crit.

 

[GorTeX]

hard to perma-trip...the AoO incured by them standing back up happens before they stand, so you can't trip them then.