D&D (2024) 2024 Player's Handbook Reveal #2: "New Fighter"

"The Fighter is now the weapon master equivalent of the Wizard!"


"The Fighter is now the weapon master equivalent of the Wizard" (with respect to versatility).


OVERVIEW

The Fighter seems to have been mostly set in Playtest 7. Most of the features described carry over from there, though Brawler has gone and is replaced by Psi Warrior form Tasha's.
  • Ranger and Fighter have the most new features.
  • Subclasses provide "different levels of mechanical idiosyncracy".
  • Weapon mastery (level1), tactical mind (2), tactical shift (5), studied attacks (13) -- all of these are as in PT7.
  • second wind -- increased number of uses (as PT7)
  • NEW: Level 9: Tactical master is like mastery of Armaments, but limited to push. sap, and slow. These properties are now always in the fighter's pocket, regardless of the weapon used. These properties add to Battle Master abilities.
  • Fighting Styles: new options available: Blindfighting, Interception, Thrown Weapons, and Unarmed fighting (from Tasha's). (YAY for thrown weapons and unarmed fighting!). Protection style "improved".
  • NEW: You can change your fighting style when you level up.
  • NEW: All classes now get an Epic Boon at level 19, replacing the ASI.


SUBCLASSES

Battle Master:
  • they considered making the maneuvers the core of the fighter, but that would undermine the goal of different playstyles for each subclass.
  • ambush, bait and switch, commanding presence, and tactical presence all brought over from Tasha's (as PT7)
  • Student of War also gives you a skill proficiency (as PT7)
  • Know your enemy has "limited number of uses per day" (PT7 had one, IIRC)
Champion:
  • same core identity, focusing on crits.
  • Remarkable Athlete: NEW. When you score a crit, you can move without receiving opportunity attacks.
  • Remarkable Athlete: advantage on initiative and athletics (as PT7). This works with the new surprise rules, which give you an edge but "defang" the one-sidedness of surprise.
  • Additional fighting style at 7, Heroic Warrior at 10, Survivor at 18 (as PT7).
Eldritch Knight:
  • for players who played OD&D when Elf was a class...
  • with the Psi Warrior are for people who want Fighter and X (mixed).
  • no school restrictions (also for Arcane Trickster)
  • NEW: you can now use an arcane focus.
  • War Magic and Improved War Magic: as in PT7, but at level 18 you can replace two attacks with spells up to level 2 (I think this is new).
Psi Warrior:
  • changes from Tasha: changes are primarily in rewording.

NEW RULES
Epic Boon:
  • you may choose a non-epic boon feat. They include an ASI that can go past 20, and include abilities go beyond what feats normally do.
  • Example: Boon of Combat Prowess. Once per TURN, you can turn a miss to a hit. Another example: You have Truesight. Another example: when you attack or take the magic action, you also teleport.
  • The PHB now has rules to go beyond level 20. Every time you hit some XP threshold, you can choose another Epic Boon (which could take one of your scores to level 30).
Other NEW rules clarifications:
  • Heroic Inspiration which lets you re-roll any one die (may be one damage die, but not all damage dice).
  • Surprise now gives you disadvantage on your initiative. (Champion, Assassin, and Barbarian are hard to surprise -- they won't have disadvantage on init).
  • No school restrictions for Arcane Trickster or Eldrtich Knight.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Staffan

Legend
At level 10, your champion has 3 d20 rolls a turn at +1 crit range.

At level 15, your champion has 4 d20 rolls a turn at +2 crit range.
But it's not just one extra chance of critting – it's not even primarily that. It's also a chance of turning a miss into a hit. And the effectiveness of that is really hard to tell, because it depends on what your chance of hitting is to begin with.

So, assuming fighters still get a third attack at level 11, and assuming the chance to hit is 70%, the 11th level Battlemaster will on average hit 2.1 times per turn. The Champion will hit 2.6 times, assuming I did the math right. That's half a hit more per round, not even counting the increased crit chance. I'm pretty sure that's going to have more of an impact than 5d10 per short rest.

Of course, that's just looking at raw damage, not the other benefits the Battlemaster can get with their maneuvers. And it isn't looking at whatever else the Champion can do with a reroll every round, and how doing so might impact their choice to use a high risk/high reward strategy such as GWM (getting -5 to hit for +10 damage is a lot more attractive when you have a reroll).
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
So... you are aware that the 2014 rules never once allowed for surprise to skip an enemy's turn, right? And that, at no point during these rules or the 2014 rules, could a mage cast shield and it last two rounds.

Maybe learn what the rules are before you attempt to criticize them?
Never said it did. I was critiquing a changed initiative plan that would end up make those changes. Which was in what I quoted so all of the information was there is the post you quoted for you to understand what was going on.

Please, actually read what you are responding to before going off half cocked. And please try to tune down how rude your responses are.
 

tglassy

Adventurer
that is the problem, champion is not effective at all, that +1 crit range means next to nothing.

if you compare that to BMs 4 dice of +1d8 damage, you need 44 attack rolls to beat that average 18 extra damage. not counting added utility in additional effects with that +1d8 damage.
Yeah. But it's simpler. I know many people who just don't want to deal with complexity. They don't want to deal with strategy. They just wanna cast "Skull Crack" every round. That's what the Champion is for. You don't have to remember anything. it's all on the character sheet.

You crit on an 18, 19 or 20. Your AC is +1 higher from choosing Defense as your second fighting style. Your sword damage is +2 more from having Dueling as your first Fighting Style. Your Str, Dex and Con rolls add a point or three from proficiency. You heal every round if your health is below half.

Almost all of that can just be marked once on the sheet and you never have to think about it again. Just check the sheet. My Stealth is a +3 because I have a 10 Dex and am not proficient. My weapon does this damage. My AC is this. No thought. Just skull crack.

It's not how I play. I like Warlocks. I like REALLY diving into my character creation. I don't play Champion Fighters. I play Eldritch Knights (LOVE the new one). Give me complexity. Champion isn't for me. It's for those other people.
 

Asisreo

Patron Badass
that is the problem, champion is not effective at all, that +1 crit range means next to nothing.

if you compare that to BMs 4 dice of +1d8 damage, you need 44 attack rolls to beat that average 18 extra damage. not counting added utility in additional effects with that +1d8 damage.
Hmmm...this is assuming no magic weapons with additional damage dice. I'm thinking a flame tongue, for instance, might have the champion come ahead a few times.

Which means its effectiveness depends on their new philosophy on magic items, if they have one.
 

TwoSix

"Diegetics", by L. Ron Gygax
Remember that 2024 Champions get one reroll per round. That's almost, but not quite, the same as an extra attack every round (unless all their attacks hit anyway in which case, good on them). It also gives them a safety net for things like Great Weapon Mastery or Sharpshooter, assuming they (or a fixed version) are still around in 2024.
Wait wait wait. Champion gets a reroll every round? At what level?
 

Staffan

Legend
Wait wait wait. Champion gets a reroll every round? At what level?
At 10th level, they get Heroic Inspiration at the start of every turn if they don't already have it. And Heroic Inspiration has been buffed, so you can use it to reroll anything instead of having to spend it before the roll to gain advantage.
 

TwoSix

"Diegetics", by L. Ron Gygax
At 10th level, they get Heroic Inspiration at the start of every turn if they don't already have it. And Heroic Inspiration has been buffed, so you can use it to reroll anything instead of having to spend it before the roll to gain advantage.
Reroll-keep better or reroll-replace?

And do you reroll a check with advantage with another check with advantage?
 

Staffan

Legend
Reroll-keep better or reroll-replace?

And do you reroll a check with advantage with another check with advantage?
Don't know. When mathing, I assumed that they'd use their inspiration to reroll a miss (so if they roll three hits on their three attacks, they'd either use it on rerolling a crap damage roll or keep it around for a save or something – either way, something that doesn't affect the number of hits).

Anyhow, having this reroll around boosts their damage by quite a bit – depending on the original hit chance, up to almost half a hit per round (I think it peaks at 0.47 when they're at 65%). My estimate is that once this comes online, Champions will be doing the most sustained damage but the various effects of the Battlemaster's maneuvers will likely make that the stronger option overall – and that's fine, as long as the gap doesn't become too large I don't mind an option giving some extra benefit for being willing to use some extra tactics.
 

Clint_L

Legend
I think it's very important to keep a mix of less complicated subclasses and more complicated ones. WotC has struck a pretty good balance here, IMO.
 

Staffan

Legend
I think it's very important to keep a mix of less complicated subclasses and more complicated ones. WotC has struck a pretty good balance here, IMO.
Right. I'd like there to be a more complex martial character, but that's clearly not happening – at least not here. And it's fine if the more complex option has a higher ceiling as a reward for engaging with it, as long as it isn't too much higher.
 

Voidrunner's Codex

Remove ads

Voidrunner's Codex

Remove ads

Top