D&D (2024) 2024 Player's Handbook Reveal #2: "New Fighter"

"The Fighter is now the weapon master equivalent of the Wizard!"


"The Fighter is now the weapon master equivalent of the Wizard" (with respect to versatility).


OVERVIEW

The Fighter seems to have been mostly set in Playtest 7. Most of the features described carry over from there, though Brawler has gone and is replaced by Psi Warrior form Tasha's.
  • Ranger and Fighter have the most new features.
  • Subclasses provide "different levels of mechanical idiosyncracy".
  • Weapon mastery (level1), tactical mind (2), tactical shift (5), studied attacks (13) -- all of these are as in PT7.
  • second wind -- increased number of uses (as PT7)
  • NEW: Level 9: Tactical master is like mastery of Armaments, but limited to push. sap, and slow. These properties are now always in the fighter's pocket, regardless of the weapon used. These properties add to Battle Master abilities.
  • Fighting Styles: new options available: Blindfighting, Interception, Thrown Weapons, and Unarmed fighting (from Tasha's). (YAY for thrown weapons and unarmed fighting!). Protection style "improved".
  • NEW: You can change your fighting style when you level up.
  • NEW: All classes now get an Epic Boon at level 19, replacing the ASI.


SUBCLASSES

Battle Master:
  • they considered making the maneuvers the core of the fighter, but that would undermine the goal of different playstyles for each subclass.
  • ambush, bait and switch, commanding presence, and tactical presence all brought over from Tasha's (as PT7)
  • Student of War also gives you a skill proficiency (as PT7)
  • Know your enemy has "limited number of uses per day" (PT7 had one, IIRC)
Champion:
  • same core identity, focusing on crits.
  • Remarkable Athlete: NEW. When you score a crit, you can move without receiving opportunity attacks.
  • Remarkable Athlete: advantage on initiative and athletics (as PT7). This works with the new surprise rules, which give you an edge but "defang" the one-sidedness of surprise.
  • Additional fighting style at 7, Heroic Warrior at 10, Survivor at 18 (as PT7).
Eldritch Knight:
  • for players who played OD&D when Elf was a class...
  • with the Psi Warrior are for people who want Fighter and X (mixed).
  • no school restrictions (also for Arcane Trickster)
  • NEW: you can now use an arcane focus.
  • War Magic and Improved War Magic: as in PT7, but at level 18 you can replace two attacks with spells up to level 2 (I think this is new).
Psi Warrior:
  • changes from Tasha: changes are primarily in rewording.

NEW RULES
Epic Boon:
  • you may choose a non-epic boon feat. They include an ASI that can go past 20, and include abilities go beyond what feats normally do.
  • Example: Boon of Combat Prowess. Once per TURN, you can turn a miss to a hit. Another example: You have Truesight. Another example: when you attack or take the magic action, you also teleport.
  • The PHB now has rules to go beyond level 20. Every time you hit some XP threshold, you can choose another Epic Boon (which could take one of your scores to level 30).
Other NEW rules clarifications:
  • Heroic Inspiration which lets you re-roll any one die (may be one damage die, but not all damage dice).
  • Surprise now gives you disadvantage on your initiative. (Champion, Assassin, and Barbarian are hard to surprise -- they won't have disadvantage on init).
  • No school restrictions for Arcane Trickster or Eldrtich Knight.
 

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Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
If you like a game where stealth and surprise gets you next to nothing, just say so.

It would be much more direct and honest if we openly stated some play groups value combat equality in every combat
...
Just say it out loud so we know where we stand.

Do you really need to enforce an equal combat start to every combat?

Because if that's what you want and need, cool, just say so.

Mod Note:
So, this may look or feel to you like it is a cool rhetorical turn.

But it is basically the same old strawman in disguise - restating someone else's position as something extreme, and putting a flag in the ground over it that they then have to defend or strike down. Same rhetorical weak sauce.

This reads like someone who is trying to WIN a discussion, rather than someone who is trying to use discussion to learn some stuff.

So, please stop. If you are trying to win, please stop. If you aren't trying to win, please reconsider your confrontational and combative approach.

And that goes for EVERYONE. Beating on each other for liking or disliking rules is not cool. Treat folks with respect. Period. Thanks.
 




TiQuinn

Registered User
If you like a game where stealth and surprise gets you next to nothing, just say so.

It would be much more direct and honest if we openly stated some play groups value combat equality in every combat regardless of preparation and circumstance.

What about those of us who like stealth but can also recognize the systematic unbalance of surprise and are willing to make that one aspect less important for the overall game. I can still use a rogue to stealth my PC’s way around guards and into dungeons and get into all sorts of trouble. Not every hill is one to die on.
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
And what's wrong with that?

You accomplished something rare and difficult.

Could the group really not save the "exciting combat" idea for the next group of critters? Do you really need to enforce an equal combat start to every combat?

Because if that's what you want and need, cool, just say so.

No, I don't need to enforce equal combat on every combat. But surprise isn't that rare and difficult if all it is is "have a higher stealth score than the enemies perception". Most enemies don't have perception proficiency. How difficult is it to "surprise" a group with +3 to their rolls, when your lowest modifier to the group is +11?

And if it starts happening where MOST combats aren't worth having, because your group surprises the enemy and decimates them... well, for a lot of us, that is a problem. Which I've seen DMs resolve by preventing stealth entirely.
 

Staffan

Legend
So at level 10 no additional advantage

A Battlemaster gets 5d10 bonus damage per rest
A Champion gets 1 extra crit damage every 7 turns (3 d20 rolls per turn)

At level 15 no additional advantage

A Battlemaster gets 1d8 bonus damage per turn and 6d10 bonus damage per rest
A Champion gets a 42% chance of extra crit damage every turn.

Nice.
Remember that 2024 Champions get one reroll per round. That's almost, but not quite, the same as an extra attack every round (unless all their attacks hit anyway in which case, good on them). It also gives them a safety net for things like Great Weapon Mastery or Sharpshooter, assuming they (or a fixed version) are still around in 2024.
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
that is the problem, champion is not effective at all, that +1 crit range means next to nothing.

if you compare that to BMs 4 dice of +1d8 damage, you need 44 attack rolls to beat that average 18 extra damage. not counting added utility in additional effects with that +1d8 damage.
It's not that +1 crit range is bad. It just takes a lot of d20 rolls to be good.

That doesn't happen until level 10.

Remember that 2024 Champions get one reroll per round. That's almost, but not quite, the same as an extra attack every round (unless all their attacks hit anyway in which case, good on them). It also gives them a safety net for things like Great Weapon Mastery or Sharpshooter, assuming they (or a fixed version) are still around in 2024.
That's in the calculation.

At level 10, your champion has 3 d20 rolls a turn at +1 crit range.

At level 15, your champion has 4 d20 rolls a turn at +2 crit range.
 

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