D&D 5E The fighter's Indomitable ability

[Gladius Legis]

Also, spending a feat/ASI just to increase a single save by a single point is a terrible investment, and fighters only get 2 extra ASI anyway.

Um, it's not a single point. It's anywhere from +2 to +6 points, level-scaling, or even +3 to +7 if the +1 WIS takes you to the next modifier. That's definitely worth a feat.

 

[Gladius Legis]

You don't really have to sacrifice damage, either.

Starting STR 16:

Lv. 4: STR/DEX +2 (18)
Lv. 6: STR/DEX +2 (20)
Lv. 8: Great Weapon Master/Sharpshooter
Lv. 12: Resilient (WIS) - which is (a) about the level it really becomes necessary, anyway, and (b) still 2 levels before the Rogue gets Slippery Mind.

If you're a Variant Human, you can get all of the above by Lv. 8.

 

[Tony Vargas]

That seems rather powerful!

Not really. Like I said, it's how Magic Resistance works, and it's been fairly disappointing in play, by all accounts (and that's for a monster ability). Advantage is a big help if your chance of success is around 50/50. With a 'good' save - STR and CON are both proficient, and high-priority stats for a fighter, for instance - you're likely to have better than 50/50. With a bad save - INT/WIS/CHA are low-priority and non-proficient, it's likely to be substantially worse. The +4 from proficiency would be a greater benefit at 9th level. A DEX-based fighter, OTOH, with proficiency but low priority in STR, and high priority but not proficiency in DEX is likely to be closer to 50/50 on those two saves, and might well benefit the most form 'Indomitable.' Though how dodging breath weapons and fireaballs = 'Indomitable' IDK.

 

[Quartz]

I see. Given that one race - gnomes - gets a limited magic resistance straight off, then changing Indomitable seems much more reasonable.

 

[lendalvaro]

I do think it could be better, like, when you rerrol the test you take the second roll like you where proficient with the test if you werent. That way, the commom use of getting the saves you bad to work would be more common and meaninful so, instead of repratin a test you really likely to fail again, you could re-do being more likely to suced, showing the capability of the fighter to power himself in adversity and overcome chalenges close tp impossible. If it looks too poweful, just add half proficiency.

 

[abirdcall]

I would rather if it just succeeded like legendary resistance

 

[HammerMan]

If I were to run a campaign that might actually go to double-digits, and someone actually stuck it out with a fighter through 9th level, I'd seriously consider house-ruling indomitable to be more meaningful and to convey something closer to actual indomitability. Perhaps restricting the re-roll to STR, WIS, & CHA saves, but also granting proficiency on WIS/CHA saves.

I had a player ask me to make it legendary resistance. We did and she still didn't seem too much more powerful, and still had much less going on at any moment then the casters.

I know last time I mentioned that someone said they made fighter full legendary giving them not just legendary resistance but legendary action/s I just don't rmemeber the thread.

 

[HammerMan]

in that case, you'll max out your STR (or DEX for ranged/finesse fighters) and CON and not have much else to do with the extra ASIs other than boost your weaknesses.

wait you think maxing 2+ stats is that easy?

by 10th level you have +6, so if you start with an 18 and a 16 you can but most characters don't start with both 18 and 16 (yes some out leers for ungodly rolls exist)
the defualt array is [15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8].

assuming human is +1 to all that gives you a 16 str 14 dex 15 con 9 int 11 wis 13 cha and from there at level 10 you can max str, but still have a 17 con, so level 12 can boost it to a 19, and level 14 can make it a 20 and raise 1 mental stat (all are odd so pick any).

How many games do you think the venn diagram of "Gets past level 15" and "Doesn't allow feats" is?

 

[Mordhau]

I'd keep it long rest but make it automatic success on a saving throw.

 

[ECMO3]

It still wouldn't much live up to it's name.

Advantage or a re-roll is highest-impact when you're close to 50/50 with the check. A typical 9th+ level fighter is looking at having pretty darn good STR & CON saves, between proficiency and the priority the class tends to have with those stats (unless a DEX fighter, of course), so those saves will tend to be excellent - better than 50/50, while INT/WIS/CHA saves are likely to be crap (less than 50/50). Re-rolling the odd failed STR/CON save is probably the best use of 'Indomitable,' giving the lie to the name.

Making it per short rest would reduce STR/CON saves to mere formalities, while leaving the WIS/CHA saves that 'Indomitable' implies resistance to comparatively hopeless.

If I were to run a campaign that might actually go to double-digits, and someone actually stuck it out with a fighter through 9th level, I'd seriously consider house-ruling indomitable to be more meaningful and to convey something closer to actual indomitability. Perhaps restricting the re-roll to STR, WIS, & CHA saves, but also granting proficiency on WIS/CHA saves.

A few points - first it is not advantage, it is a reroll on a failed save. That is a HUGE difference for STR and CON saves becuase you use it when you rolled very low. You are expected to pass those saves and as such it is catastrophic when you don't. Even with proficiency, a 20 in the stat and a +10 you can still fail a strength or con save and will still fail somewhat regularly at 9th level. When this happens Indomitable almost always turns a failure into a success.

For Int/WIS/Charisma it is much like advantage which is meaningless for the near-impossible saves, but there are still plenty of saves that are very makable at 9th level, especially if you are an EK or you did not dump wisdom.

Finally, you have fighters that dump strength so their strength is 8 along with a Dex of probably 20 at 9th level. In this case neither your strength or your dex saves are great. They are both "ok", they are both in the sweet spot statistically, and dex is probably the most important save.