The flames! They burn!

[Ant]

One of the PCs in my current 3.5 campaign is something of a pyromaniac. Actually, come to think of it, a lot of the PCs in my current 3.5 campaign are pyromaniacs ...

But I digress.

This particular pyromaniac is a domain wizard (fire domain, from Unearthed Arcana) and has recently hit 5th level. And we all know what that means.

So he's salivating at the chance to ignite all manner of orcs, peasants, chairs and small dogs in a fiery cataclysm of spherical proportions. He was obviously inspired by this part of the spell description:

The fireball sets fire to combustibles and damages objects in the area. It can melt metals with low melting points, such as lead, gold, copper, silver, and bronze.

However, on perusing the DMG we find this under The Environment section:

Characters exposed to burning oil, bonfires, and noninstantaneous magic fires might find their clothes, hair, or equipment on fire. Spells with an instantaneous duration don’t normally set a character on fire, since the heat and flame from these come and go in a flash.

So, are we saying here that poor Mr Slightly-Deranged Fire Domain Wizard can not, in fact, ignite his puppies? What about on a failed saving throw? Or the dreaded saving throw of "1" denoting torment and horror as all manner of precious magical items are consumed by conflagration? What if said puppies were previously doused in oil? And why am I suddenly hungry?

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

Doused in oil, yes. Normally, no. I'm inclined to rule that for simplicity's sake, any burning is included in the initial damage. And you're hungry because puppies are yummy.

 

[werk]

...

I had asked the sage a question along these lines a long time ago. He said that the burning was the damage type and that items would not catch on fire unless they were flammable or predisposed to catching on fire, it was just descriptive text.

I asked because I was setting off sonic fireballs in the hall of mirrors...and sonic chain lightening, and sonic meteor swarm (which you would think would be really loud, but turns out, is not loud at all).

 

[Bastoche]

Critial failure on 1 and critial sucess on 20 is only on to hit rolls within core rules. Extending this to other rolls (skills, saving throws, etc) is an optionnal rule from the DMG IIRC.

It's just that I seem to notice that many people on this board assume a 1 is always a critial miss. It only is a critial miss on an attack roll.

You may return on topic...

 

[Nareau]

SRD sez:

Automatic Failures and Successes: A natural 1 (the d20 comes up 1) on a saving throw is always a failure (and may cause damage to exposed items; see Items Surviving after a Saving Throw). A natural 20 (the d20 comes up 20) is always a success.

Spider

 

[Deset Gled]

It's just that I seem to notice that many people on this board assume a 1 is always a critial miss. It only is a critial miss on an attack roll....

To expand on what Spider said, this was ambiguous in 3rd edition. The core rules didn't state it anywhere, but the FAQ did. As such is was a highly debated topic. In 3.5, it is spelled out clearly that automatic successes and failures work on saves (3.5 also makes a point of noting that the FAQ is not an official rules source).

As to the original topic, I think it is quite reasonable to rule that combustion due to fireball only works on unattended objects, and that all damage from burning to creatures is already included. Rolling a natural 1 on a save would allow the combustion effect to act on attended items (if applicable).

 

[MichaelH]

Critial failure on 1 and critial sucess on 20 is only on to hit rolls within core rules. Extending this to other rolls (skills, saving throws, etc) is an optionnal rule from the DMG IIRC.

You do not recall correctly. Even in 3.0 this was not an optional rule in the DMG. It was left out of the PH by mistake and corrected in the FAQ. But, as Spider quotes, it is right there in the SRD/3.5 PH.

 

[Bastoche]

My bad about save throws... I really thought it was only for the to hit roll. I even checked the SRD before posting!

Note to self: when checking the SRD, check some more!!!

 

[JDowling]

I think a compelling argument could be made that since Fireball specifically mentions lighting things on fire it could be a special exception to the general rule (which would apply to all such spells that didn't specifically contradict it), no?

 

[ThirdWizard]

I think a compelling argument could be made that since Fireball specifically mentions lighting things on fire it could be a special exception to the general rule (which would apply to all such spells that didn't specifically contradict it), no?

If a spell will set you on fire, it will call it out specifically, giving damage per round and all that, though, usually with a second reflex save to prevent catching alight.